| 00:00:46 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | GOOD EVENING. THESE ARE TIMES WHEN WHAT USED TO BE CALLED LIBERAL IS NOW CALLED RADICAL. WHAT USED TO BE CALLED RADICAL IS NOW CALLED INSANE. WHAT USED TO BE CALLED REACTIONARY IS NOW CALLED MODERATE. WHAT USED TO BE CALLED SANE IS NOW CALLED NEO CONSERVATIVE THINKING. [APPLAUSE] SO IT IS VERY GOOD TO BE HERE FOR THE HEAD AND THE HEART TO BE HERE TONIGHT WITH PEOPLE OF SANITY AND PASSION WHO HAVE COME TO HEAR A DEFENDER OF THE AMERICAN REPUBLIC, PERHAPS AMERICA'S LAST SMALL "R" REPUBLICAN, GORE VIDAL. [APPLAUSE] AND THANKS TO OUR CO-SPONSORS THE NEW YORK SOCIETY FOR CULTURE, THE PUBLIC CONCERN FOUNDATION AND DEMOCRATS.COM. IT IS ALMOST AS IF THE NORMAL TIMES THE MAGAZINE AS A NATION IS WAITING FOR A MORAL OR POLITICAL CRISIS TO HAPPEN AND IT HAS. AS GORE VIDAL HAS SAID, WE ARE NOT SO MUCH ON THE BRINK AND FALLING OVER IT. I WOULD GUESS THAT ALL OF US IN THE HALL TONIGHT WEEP FOR WHAT IS HAPPENING TO OUR COUNTRY. WE KNOW WHEN IT COMES TO DEFENDING OUR FRAGILE DEMOCRACY TO RESTORING CITIZEN CONTROL TO THE GOVERNMENT OR REIGNING IN CORPORATE POWER, WE'RE IN THE FIGHT OF OUR LIVES. THAT FIGHT NEEDS THE MEDIA, NEEDS A GORE VIDAL WHO WILL DEFEND THE SPIRIT AND LETTER OF OUR CONSTITUTION AND DEFY THE BULLY WHO IS SAY QUESTIONING THE ADMINISTRATION AND THE MOTIVE IS UNPATRIOTIC. AT THE NATION WE REFUSED TO BE COUD OR SILENCED WHEN CALLED NAMES BY AUSSIE RAGS MASQUERADING AS NEWSPAPERS. AND BY THEIR ELECTRONIC MEDIA AFFILIATES DETERMINED TO MAKE US WHAT GORE VIDAL WOULD CALL THE UNITED STATES OF AMNESIA. IN THIS TIME OF SLUGGISH CONFORMITY T NATION'S INDEPENDENT, REBELLIOUS, AND SANE VOICES REFUSE TO BE DROWNED OUT BY MURDER OF COURSIZATION. THE SPIRIT OF INDEPENDENCE RUNS THROUGH THE EMPIRE WE AT THE NATION ARE BUILDING, YES, EMPIRE, FROM THE LARGEST CIRCULATION WEEKLY OF POLITICAL OPINION IN THIS COUNTRY TO A NATIONAL WEEKLY RADIO SHOW TO AN INTERNSHIP PROGRAM THAT HAS LAUNCHED HUNDREDS OF YOUNG JOURNALISTS OF A GUERILLA-KIND OF NETWORK INTO THE MAIN STREAM, AND NOW NATION BOOKS, A NEW PUBLISHING VENTURE OF THE NATION INSTITUTE AND THUNDER MOUTH PRESS. IT DELIGHTS US THAT A GREAT AND FEROCIOUS OPPONENT OF EMPIRE, GORE VIDAL, HAS CONTRIBUTED TO THE SUCCESS OF THE NATION EMPIRE. HIS BOOK "DREAMING WAR" IN THE EIGHTH WEEK ON THE "NEW YORK TIMES" BEST SELLER LIST AND ON THE Q. L.A. TIMES" BEST SELLER LIST SEEMS EVIDENCE TO ME FOR THE RIGHT-WINGED BIGOT WHO IS MARKET TREASON AND SLANDER AND BIAS AND BULLSHIT. [APPLAUSE] NO ONE IS BETTER SUITED TO SKEERING THE IDIOCIES THAN GORE VIDAL FROM ROME TO WASHINGTON, D.C. TO HOLLYWOOD, DEFENDER OF THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT TRULY STANDS AND A BELIEVER IN ARGUMENT WITHOUT PROVOCATION, NOT WAR WITHOUT END. [APPLAUSE] LET ME END BY RETURNING TO ANOTHER TIME IN OUR COUNTRY'S HISTORY A FEW YEARS AGO BEFORE 1865, 1865 BEING THE YEAR THE NATION WAS FOUNDED BY A GROUP OF ABOLITIONISTS. WHENDELL FILL IPS, ONE OF THE LEADING -- WENDELL PHILLIPS WAS ASKED, WHY ARE YOU SO ON FIRE? HE REPLIED "I'M ON FIRE BECAUSE I HAVE MOUNTAINS OF ICE BEFORE ME TO MELT." SINCE PHILLIPS LEFT THE SCENE T MOUNTAINS HAVE GROWN HIGHER AND WE NEED SOME MORE FIRE TO MELT THEM. TONIGHT LET'S MELT THE ICE AND TAKE THE FIRE OUT FROM GORE VIDAL. I TURN THIS EVENING OVER TO AMERICA'S GIFT TO THE INTERVIEW AND HOST OF A DAILY SHOW ON WNYC . THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE] |
| 00:05:15 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO START OFF BY READING SOMETHING. |
| 00:05:20 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | YES. BUT VERY BRIEFLY. AND I LOOK UP FROM TIME TO TIME IN ORDER TO GIVE AN AIR OF SPONTANEITY. HEARTS SINK WHEN THEY SEE A GREAT SHEATHE OF PAPERS AND A GRIM LOOK ON THE SPEAKER'S FACE. I'M DELIGHTED TO BE HERE. AND PARTICULARLY DELIGHTED SO MANY OLD FRIENDS I SEE HERE AND THERE. ONE OF THE GREAT HEROS OF MY LIFETIME POLITICALLY IS IN THIS HALL, SENATOR GEORGE MCGOVERN. [APPLAUSE] |
| 00:06:26 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | ONE OF THE ONLY VOTES I HAVE NEVER REGRETTED MAKING. |
| 00:06:32 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | GEORGE, RUN. THIS IS THE YEAR. I'M ALSO VERY GRATEFUL FOR HIM THAT HE GOT ME THE BIGGEST LAUGH I HAVE EVER HAD IN A HALL. IT WAS IN 1972 WHEN NIXON WON AND THERE WAS NOT MUCH TO LAUGH ABOUT. AND I WAS SPEAKING IN BOSTON TO A LARGE YOUTHFUL AUDIENCE. AND THE QUESTIONS AFTERWARDS AND SOMEBODY SAID, HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT WE HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS ARE THE ONLY STATE TO VOTE FOR MCGOVERN? AND I SAID, WELL, I COULD COMPLIMENT YOU AND SAY BOSTON IS THE ATHENS OF AMERICA AND THEY STARTED TO APPLAUD DUTIFULLY. I SAID, NO, NO, NO. I SAID, IT'S NOT THAT. I SAID SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE REPUBLIC, MASSACHUSETTS HAS BEEN THE MOST CORRUPT STATE IN THE UNION AND YOU KNOW A CROOK WHEN YOU SEE ONE. [LAUGHING] I WAS NOT ASKED IMMEDIATELY BACK TO THAT VENUE. THERE ARE A COUPLE OF QUOTATIONS I WOULD LIKE TO THROW OUT TO SORT OF SET A THEME TO WHY WE ARE HERE. THERE'S A QUOTATION FROM BENJAMIN FRANKLIN AND YOU CANNOT FIND IT IN ANY OF THE HIGH SCHOOL HISTORY BOOKS AND NOT EVEN IN PROPER HISTORY BOOKS EXCEPT RARELY. AND IT OCCURRED THAT FRANKLIN HAS ALWAYS BEEN DEPICTED AS ONE OF THE GREAT BORES OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS AND ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING. IN 1789 HE WAS IN PHILADELPHIA FOR THE MAKING OF THE CONSTITUTION. HE'S OLD, DYING, AND HE FINALLY READ THE HANDY WORK OF HIS FELLOW CONVENTIONERS AND HE DIDN'T LIKE IT. BUT HE THOUGHT ABOUT IT AND THEN HE GOT UP AND HE MADE A VERY INTERESTING SPEECH. HE SAID "I THINK THAT THIS -- WE SHOULD ACCEPT THIS CONSTITUTION FOR ALL OF ITS ERROR AND OMISSIONS." AT THAT TIME THE BILL OF RIGHTS WAS NO IN THE THERE. I THINK IT WILL GIVE US FOR A COURSE OF YEARS GOOD GOVERNMENT, WHICH IS WHAT WE NEED RIGHT NOW, AND THEN IN DUE COURSE, AS IT MAY BE A BLESSING TO THE PEOPLE IF WELL ADMINISTERED. AND THAT I BELIEVE THIS IS LIKELY TO BE WELL ADMINISTERED. AND THEN ONLY END DUE TO THE CORRUPTION OF THE PEOPLE IN DESPOTISM WHICH WILL BE THE ONLY FORM OF GOVERNMENT SUITABLE FOR THEM. THIS IS AS DARK A STATEMENT AS ANYONE HAS EVER MADE. THEY GOT AROUND IT AND THE BEST OF THE HIGH SCHOOL HISTORY BOOKS I THOUGHT. AMERICAN PAGEANT, I THINK, SAYS THAT THEY WERE SO AFRAID FOR FRANKLIN. HE KEPT GOING TO DINNER PARTIES AND HIS CONVERSATION WAS QUITE BRILLIANT. THEY WERE TERRIFIED HE WOULD GIVE HIS TRUE OPINION OF HOW THIS THING WOULD END. SO THEY HAD A COUPLE OF YOUNG MEN GOING AROUND WITH HIM SITTING ON EITHER SIDE SO WHEN BENJAMIN FRANKLIN SAID, LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION, THEY WOULD SAY, "COULD YOU PASS THE SAUCE, MR. FRANKLIN?" . I THOUGHT ABOUT, NEEDLESS TO SAY, WHEN FRANKLIN'S PROPHESY CAME TRUE IN DECEMBER, 2000, WHEN THE SUPREME COURT BULLDOZED ITS WAY THROUGH THE CONSTITUTION IN ORDER TO SELECT AS THEIR PRESIDENT THE LOSER IN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION OF THAT YEAR. DESPOTISM IS NOW SECURELY IN THE SADDLE. IS IT DUE TO THE CORRUPTION OF THE PEOPLE? I THOUGHT, WELL, WHAT IS CORRUPTION? THE FOUNDING FATHERS WERE ALWAYS -- MANY OF THEM ON THE VERGE OF IT. AND OTHERS IN THE CONGRESSES WERE THE AMBULANCE -- THE BLANKETS DIDN'T GET TO VALLEY FORGE BECAUSE IT COULDN'T PASS CONGRESS THAT WAS SITTING IN PHILADELPHIA. CORRUPTION HAS ALWAYS BEEN WITH US, BUT WHEN IT BECOMES SO TOTALLY CLEAR AND IN AN ELECTION AND TO MAKE NO CONTEST, THERE WAS NO OUTCRY ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHEN THIS TERRIBLE MANIPULATION TOOK PLACE. AND THEN, OF COURSE, ENRON AND ANDERSEN AND IT IS TAKEN FOR GRANTED THE GREAT COMPANIES ARE LIKE THIS AND C.E.O.S ARE TAKING ALL THE MONEY THAT IS NOT NAILED DOWN. AND PEOPLE OUT OF WORK WITH NO RELIEF TO FALL BACK UPON. NOW I THINK WHAT WE MIGHT CHAT ABOUT IS THAT DESPOTISM IS REALLY IN THE SADDLE. AND THAT ALL REPUBLICS OVERSHADOW ITSELF AND WE NOW STAND IN THE GLARE OF A NEW CLEAR WORLD EMPIRE WITH A GOVERNMENT THAT SEES AS ITS TRUE ENEMY WE, THE PEOPLE, DEPRIVED OF OUR ELECTORAL FRANCHISE. WAR IS THE USUAL AIM OF DESPOTS AND SERIAL WARFARE IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO GET UNLESS WE HAVE HELP FROM WELL WISHER IN NEW OLD EUROPE AND FROM OURSELVES AWAKE AT LAST WE CAN PERSUADE THIS PECULIAR ADMINISTRATION THAT THEY ARE ACTING ON THEIR OWN AND AGAINST ALL OUR HISTORY. THE OTHER NIGHT ON CNN I BROUGHT THE ADMIRABLE AARON BROWN TO A FULL STOP. [LAUGHING] I DO NOT DO 19TH CENTURY FOX. [APPLAUSE] I BROUGHT HIM TO A FULL STOP NOT WITH FRANKLIN, BUT WITH PRESIDENT JOHN QUINCY ADAMS WHO SAID IN THE 1820'S ON THE SUBJECT OF OUR FIGHTING TO LIBERATE GREECE FROM TURKEY, "THE UNITED STATES GOES NOT ABROAD IN SEARCH OF MONSTERS TO DESTROY. IF THE UNITED STATES TOOK UP ALL FOREIGN AFFAIRS, SHE MIGHT BECOME THE DICTATOR OF THE WORLD, BUT SHE WOULD NO LONGER BE THE RULER OF HER OWN SPIRIT OR SOUL." SHOULD WE BE ALLOWED IN 2004 TO HOLD A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION HERE IN THE HOMELAND? I SUSPECT WE SHALL REALIZE THAT THE ONLY REGIME CHANGE THAT NEED CONCERN OUR SPIRIT OR SOUL IS IN WASHINGTON. PRESIDENT ADAMS IS LONG SINCE DEAD, AND WE HAVE NOW BEEN IN THE EMPIRE BUSINESS SINCE AT LEAST 1900 WITH THE CONQUEST OF THE PHILIPPINES AND THE LOCAL POPULATION DID NOT WANT US THERE. THEY PROMISED THEM INDEPENDENCE. WE KILLED 220,000 OF THEM WHILE SUBDUING THEM. A FEW YEARS AGO THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT EXCHANGE BETWEEN THE THEN GENERAL COLIN POWELL AND THE THEN-STATESPERSON MADELEINE ALBRIGHT. LIKE SO MANY CIVILIAN, SHE WAS EAGER TO USE OUR TROOPS AGAINST ONE OF OUR MANY, MANY, ENEMIES. EVERYWHERE WE LOOK THERE'S SOMEBODY LURKING WHO MIGHT ONE DAY FIND A SPECIAL DEATH FRAME AND TURN IT ON US. ONE COULD HARDLY SLEEP AT NIGHT KNOWING THESE DANGERS ALL AROUND YOU. WHEN POWELL SAID NO, SHE SAID, WHAT'S THE POINT OF HAVING ALL THIS MILITARY AND NOT USING IT? HE SAID, THEY ARE NOT TOY SOLDIERS. BUT IN THE INTEREST OF FIGHTING COMMUNISM, WE DID SPEND TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND SO WE ARE NOW THREATENING TO SINK UNDER THE WEIGHT OF SO MUCH WEAPONRY, MUCH OF IT WE HAVE SHIFTED OVER ONTO AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ. I SUPPOSE IT WAS INEVITABLE THAT SOONER OR LATER A NEW GENERATION WOULD GET THE BRIGHT IDEA -- DID YOU READ THAT THING IN THE "SUNDAY TIMES" ON THE NEO CONS AND THEIR BACKGROUND INTELLECTUALLY, WHICH TURNS OUT TO BE BY A FRIEND OF MINE. LAOS STRAUSS WHO HAS BEEN TAKEN UP BY WOLFOWITZ AND CHENEY AND THE LOT AS A KIND OF GURU SINCE HE SEEMS TO BELIEVE EMPIRE IS VERY IMPORTANT AND EMPIRE IS BASED CLASSIC CALLY ON FORCE. WHY STOP FOOLING AROUND WITH DIPLOMACY AND TREATIES AND COALITIONS AND JUST USE OUR MILITARY POWER TO GIVE ORDERS TO THE REST OF THE WORLD? A YEAR OR TWO AGO A PAIR OF NEOCONSERVATIVES PUT FORWARD THE EXACT NOTION. I RESPONDED IN PRINT IF WE DID SO, WE WOULD HAVE PERPETUAL WAR OR PERPETUAL PEACE, WHICH IS NOT GOOD FOR BUSINESS. THEN THE CHENEY-BUSH SEIZED POWER, ALTHOUGH PRIMARILY INTERESTED IN OIL RESERVES -- THEY LIKE THE IDEA OF PLAYING SOLDIERS, TOO, AND IF YOU CALL IT A WAR, WAR TIME POWERS FOR THE PRESIDENT. LAST SUMMER CONGRESS RECEIVED FROM THE ADMINISTRATION A DOCUMENT CALLED THE NATIONAL SECURITY STRATEGY OF THE UNITED STATES. AS A HISTORIAN, JOSEPH STROMBERG OBSERVED IT MUST BE READ TO BE BELIEVED. THE DOCTRINE PREACHES THE DESIRABILITY OF THE UNITED STATES BECOMING TO USE ADAMS WORDS "DICK DICTATORESES OF THE WORLD. IT USED TO BE NICARAGUA WAS ENOUGH, AND NOW IT'S GOING TO BE KOREA, CHINA, AND ALSO ASSUMES THAT THE PRESIDENT AND HIS LIEUTENANTS ARE MORALLY ENTITLED TO GOVERN THE PLANET. IT DECLARES OUR BEST DEFENSE IS A GOOD OFFENSE. THE DOCTRINE OF PREEMPTION IS NEXT DECLARED. WITH A MATTER OF COMMON SENSE AND SELF-DEFENSE, AMERICA WILL ACT AGAINST EMERGING THREATS BEFORE THEY WERE FULLY FORMED. THIS IS THE KIND OF MADNESS. THIS IS NOT WHAT WE STARTED THE COUNTRY FOR. NOT WHAT THE REST OF THE WORLD WANTS. IT'S AS IF I'M SURE AT THIS VERY MOMENT GOOD GENERAL ASHCROFT, BRAVE OFFICER OF THE HUNA THAT HE IS IS PROBABLY UP IN UTAH ARRESTING MORMON BOYS BEFORE THEY GROW UP AND THEN KIDNAP EIGHT GIRLS. FOR FUTURE WIVES. THEY'RE GOING TO DO IT. WE KNOW IT. WE KNOW THE DANGER. IF YOU PUT THEM ALL IN PRISON IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS, THOSE GIRLS SAFE, THANK GOD. DANGER, DANGER EVERYWHERE WE LOOK. ARTICLE ONE, SECTION EIGHT OF THE CONSTITUTION SAYS ONK CAN DECLARE WAR, BUT THEY SURRENDERED THAT POWER TO THE PRESIDENT IN 1950 AND HAS NEVER TAKEN IT BACK. AS EX-SENATOR SIMPSON, AND HE WAS ONE OF MY FAVORITE CLOWNS -- AS HE SAID SO CHEERILY ON TV THE OTHER EVENING, THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES DON'T DECLARE WAR. THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF DOES. SO IN GREAT MATTERS WE ARE NOT GUIDED BY LAW, BUT BY FAITH IN THE PRESIDENT WHOSE POWERFUL CHRISTIAN BELIEFS PREACH REAL FAITH IS THE SUBSTANCE OF THINGS HOPED FOR, THE EVIDENCE OF THINGS NOT SEEN. IN RESPONSE TO THINGS NOT SEEN, THE U.S.A. PATRIOT ACT WAS RUSHED THROUGH CONGRESS 45 DAY AFTER 9/11. WE WERE EXPECTED TO BELIEVE THAT IT'S CAREFULLY CRAFTED 342 PAGES WERE WRITTEN IN THAT SHORT TIME. ACTUALLY, IT READS LIKE A CONTINUATION OF CLINTON'S POST-OKLAHOMA CITY ANTITERRORIST ACT. THE PATRIOT ACT MAKES IT POSSIBLE FOR GOVERNMENT AGENTS TO BREAK INTO ANYONE'S HOME WHEN THEY ARE AWAY, CONDUCT A SEARCH AND KEEP THE CITIZEN INDEFINITELY FROM FINDING OUT THAT A WARRANT WAS ISSUED OR NOT. THEY CAN OBLIGE LIBRARIANS TO TELL THEM WHAT BOOKS ANYONE HAS WITHDRAWN. IF THE LIBRARIAN REFUSES, HE OR SHE CAN BE CRIMINALLY CHARGED. THEY CAN ALSO COLLECT YOUR CREDIT REPORTS AND OTHER SENSITIVE INFORMATION WITHOUT JUDICIAL APPROVAL OR THE CITIZENS CON CONSENT. FINALLY, ALL THIS UNCONSTITUTIONAL ACTIVITY NEED NOT HAVE THE SLIGHTEST CONNECTION WITH TERRORISM. EARLY LAST MONTH THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT LEAKED PATRIOT ACT II KNOWN AS THE DOMESTIC SECURITY ENHANCEMENT ACT. AS OF JANUARY 9, 2003, IT IS NOT YET GONE TO CONGRESS, BUT IT CERTAINLY HAS BEEN LEAKED. AND I SAW PARTS OF IT. IT'S A PROVISION. IF AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, BORN AMERICAN CITIZEN, HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF SUPPORTING AN ORGANIZATION LABELED AS TERRORIST BY THE GOVERNMENT, HE CAN BE DEPRIVED OF HIS CITIZENSHIP, EVEN IF HE HAD NO IDEA THE ORGANIZATION HAD ANY LINK TO TERRORISM. PROVISION IS ALSO MADE FOR MORE SEARCHES AND WIRETAPS WITHOUT WARRANT, AS WELL AS SECTION 201, SECRET ARRESTS. IN CASE THE CITIZEN TRIES TO FIGHT BACK IN ORDER TO RETAIN THE CITIZENSHIP HE OR SHE WAS BORN WITH, THOSE FEDERAL AGENTS WHO CONDUCT ILLEGAL SURVEY YANS WITH THE BLESSING OF HIGH ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS ARE IMMUNE FROM LEGAL ACTION. A NATIVE-BORN AMERICAN DEPRIVED OF CITIZENSHIP WOULD PRESUMABLY BE DEPORTED AS TODAY A FOREIGN-BORN PERSON CAN BE DEPORTED. ALSO ACCORDING TO TO AMERICAN CITIZENS, -- THE PROVISION HAS WONDERFUL LANGUAGE IN IT -- IT SAYS HE CAN BE STRIPPED OF HIS CITIZENSHIP, DEPORTED FROM THE UNITED STATES, AND THEN THEY SUDDENLY THOUGHT, WELL, WHAT COUNTRY WOULD WANT HIM? WE BETTER REPHRASE THIS. BECAUSE HE CAN'T, OF COURSE, GET A PASSPORT AS HE DOESN'T HAVE CITIZENSHIP. SO THE THOUGHTFUL DEVISERS OF THE DOMESTIC SECURITY ENHANCEMENT AUTHORIZES THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO DEPORT HIM, QUOTE, "TO ANY COUNTRY OR REGION REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE COUNTRY OR REGION HAS A GOVERNMENT." WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE HEAVEN TO ME. ANY WAY, THAT'S HOW YOU GET RID OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS IN ONE BIG SWEEP. BACK IN 1939, OUR GREATEST HISTORIAN CHARLES A. BEARD WROTE THE DESTINY OF EUROPE AND ASIA HAS NOT BEEN COMMITTED UNDER GOD TO THE KEEPING OF THE UNITED STATES. AND ONLY CONCEIT, DREAMS OF GRAND YOUR, VAIN IMAGININGS, LUST FOR POWER, OR A DESIRE TO ESCAPE FROM THE DOMESTIC PEARLS AND OBLIGATIONS COULD POSSIBLY MAKE US SUPPOSE THAT PROVIDENCE HAS APPOINTED US HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE FOR THE EARTH. THOSE AMERICAN WHO IS REFUSE TO PLUNGE BLINDLY INTO THE MALL MALESTRM OF EUROPEAN OR ASIA POLITICS ARE NOT DEFEATIST OR NEUROTIC. THEY ARE GIVING EVIDENCE OF SANITY, NOT COWARDNESS. OF ADULT THINKING AS DISTINGUISHED FROM INFANTISM. THEY INTEND TO PRESERVE AND DEFEND THE REPUBLIC. AMERICA IS NOT TO BE ROME OR BRITAIN. IT IS TO BE AMERICA. [APPLAUSE] |
| 00:23:55 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WITH THAT LAST QUOTE OF CHARLES BEARD IN MIND, I AM REMINDED OF ONE OF YOUR CHARACTERS. I HAVE NO CONTROL OVER IT. CAN SOMEBODY TURN IT UP, PLEASE? ONE OF THE CHARACTERS IN THE GOLDEN AGE, YOUR LAST NOVEL, THE END OF THE AMERICAN CHRONICLES, SAYS THAT AMERICA STARTED OUT WANTING TO BE LIKE GREECE AND ENDED UP LIKE ROME. WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO NEIL FERGUSON'S SUGGESTION THAT THE REAL PROBLEM FOR AMERICANS IS THAT WE REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE OUR IMPERIAL ROLES IN THE WORLD? THAT WE ARE HYPOCRITES BECAUSE WE DO IT, WE'RE PROUD OF IT, AND AT THE SAME TIME, WE MAKE BELIEVE WE'RE NOT EMPIRICAL. |
| 00:24:37 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WELL, YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER MOTHER. THAT WAS ENGLAND. THEY INVENTED HYPOCRISY. WE ARE MOTHER'S CHILDREN. AT LEAST WE WERE IN THE WE GINNING OF THE COUNTRY -- AT LEAST WE WERE IN THE BEGINNING OF THE COUNTRY. WE WANTED TO CHRISTIANIZE THE INDIANS WHOSE LAND WE TOOK. AND WE DID, AT LEAST. THEY ALL HAD CHRISTIAN BURIALS. ESSENTIALLY WE WERE UNDERTAKERS FOR JESUS. |
| 00:25:10 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | YOU SOMETIMES QUOTE THE REMARK THAT HISTORY WOULD BE AN EXCELLENT THING IF IT WERE ONLY TRUE. [LAUGHING] |
| 00:25:21 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | EY OWE -- LEO KNEW A THING OR TWO. |
| 00:25:23 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE WRITTEN HISTORICAL NOVELS ALONG WITH THE NON-FICTION? |
| 00:25:27 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | OH, HISTORICAL NOVELS, I AMGENLY SO DISAPPOINTED IN WHAT I CALL -- I AMGENLY SO DISA-- I AM GENERALLY SO DISAPPOINTED IN HISTORY WRITTEN TO GET TENURE, A LOT OF IT, OR TO PLEASE THE TRUSTEES, PAINT A GOLDEN PICTURE OF THE MANAGEMENT, WHICH IS CORPORATE AMERICA NOW DAYS. AND A FRIEND OF MINE HAS WRITTEN A VERY SUCCESSFUL BOOK, AND I WILL NOT MENTION HIS NAME BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO HURT HIS FEELINGS. BUT A BOOK ABOUT JOHN ADAMS MAKING HIM INTO THE MOST CUDDLY TEDDY BEAR YOU EVER DID SEE. |
| 00:26:06 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | I HAVE NO IDEA WHO YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. |
| 00:26:09 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | I KNOW YOU DON'T. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO DRAW ME OUT. ADAMS WAS AN INCREDIBLY BRILLIANT, THOUGHTFUL MAN, AND MARVELOUSLY NEUROTIC AND FILLED WITH VANITY AND SELF-PITY. THEY SEEM TO GO HAND IN HAND, CERTAIN CHARACTERS. SO HE WRITE THIS IS BOOK AND WE DON'T GET THE ALIEN AND SEDITION ACTS WHICH IS THE BACKGROUND GOING ON NOW IN WASHINGTON IN WHICH WE NO LONGER HAVE DUE PROCESS OF LAW HERE. WE CAN BE ASH TEARRY ARRESTED, -- WE CAN BE ARBITRARILY DEPORTED, ARRESTED, ETC. IF YOU WRITE ABOUT ADAMS WITH A BIG BEST SELLER, IF THAT IS NOT HISTORY, THAT IS HISTORICAL BIOGRAPHY. I HAVE DONE MY BEST TO CORRECT CERTAIN VIEWS THAT I THOUGHT -- I WRITE THEM AS NOVELS. I DON'T INVENT ANY -- I DON'T HAVE GEORGE WASHINGTON LOOKING OUT THE WINDOW WONDERING, WHY DID I MARRY MAR MARTHA? I DON'T KNOW IF HE EVER THOUGHT THAT AND I DON'T CARE IF HE EVER THOUGHT THAT. WHEN I HAVE HISTORICAL FIGURES IN A BOOK, WHATEVER THEY SAY THAT I RECORD, THEY ACTUALLY SAID AS FAR AS THE RECORD GOES. I'VE GOT IT FROM LETTERS AND DIARIES AND JOURNALS. AND THAT MADE UP CHARACTERS ARE SIMPLY MY WAY OF COMMENTING. FAR BETTER TO HAVE A COUPLE OF INVENTED PEOPLE OR NEAR INVENTED IN MY CASE WITH, SAY, JOHN HAY, THE SECRETARY O ABRAHAM LINCOLN. HE KEPT LOT OF JOURNAL. I WILL OCCASIONALLY GO INTO HIS MIND TO QUOTE SOMETHING HE'D WRITTEN, BUT NOT THAT HE'D SAID. IT GIVES YOU A SENSE OF THE ATMOSPHERE OF THE TIME OF WHAT THEY WERE LIKE WHEN THEY WERE TALKING. I'M DOING ONE NOW ON THE -- FOR YALE ON THE FOUNDING OF THE REPUBLIC. AND I'M NARROWING IT DOWN TO SLENDER VOLUME CALLED "INVENTING A NATION." AND I'VE GOT IT DOWN TO THE ONE PERSON WHO'S NEVER MENTIONED THAT WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT, DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT IS GEORGE WASHINGTON. WITHOUT HIM IT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED. AND HE IS TERRIBLY INTERESTING IF YOU GIVE HIM THE TIME OF DAY. HE'S NOT AS INTERESTING AS JEFFERSON WITH THE SLAVE GIRL, WHICH I WROTE ABOUT BACK IN BYRD IN 1973. DOOMIS MALONE WAS A GREAT COURT HISTORIAN AND ACK DEM WHOIK HAD DONE SIX VOLUME -- AND ACADEMIC WHO HAD DONE SIX VOLUMES AND EACH BOOK WOULD SINK MANHATTAN. AND HE ATTACKED ME FOR MY VIEW OF JEFFERSON AND SAID VIDAL IS SUBVERSIVE. THIS WAS IN THE ERA OF COMMUNISM, I SUPPOSE, WHEN HE SAYS THAT JEFFERSON COULD HAVE HAD AN AFFAIR WITH SALLY HEMMINGS WHOSE D.N.A. HAS PROVEN THAT HE INDEED HAS. I THOUGHT, IS THIS THE WAY TO WRITE HISTORY WHEN THE EVIDENCE FOR SIT SO GREAT? THEN HE SAYS IN THE CLINCHER, "NO GENTLEMAN IN THE OLD SOUTH IN THE CONFEDERACY -- HE WAS FROM VIRGINIA, TOO -- WOULD EVER HAVE AN AFFAIR WITH A SLAVE." MAYBE NOT AN AFFAIR. |
| 00:29:37 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | AN UNCOUNTER. |
| 00:29:39 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | I SAID, SO I RESPONDED TO MALONE AND I SAID, YOU ARE WILLING UPON THAT FALSITY TO CONSTRUCT A FALSE FIGURE? OF THOMAS JEFFERSON. I'M HAPPY TO SAY HE DIED THINKING PERHAPS I WAS RIGHT. TOO MANY OTHER PEOPLE HAD GOT TO HIM ON THE SUBJECT. |
| 00:29:55 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WELL, IT IS REALLY GETTING HARD TO TELL WHAT IS FACT AND WHAT IS FICTION JUST READING THE |
| 00:30:01 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | AND YOU TOLD -- |
| 00:30:06 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | THAT'S MOSTLY FICTION. |
| 00:30:08 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | IT'S THE NEW NOVEL. "THE NEW YORK TIMES." |
| 00:30:10 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE LEAD-UP TO THE WAR WITH IRAQ, THE WHOLE IDEA THAT IRAQ POSED AN IMMEDIATE THREAT TO THE SECURITY OF THE UNITED STATES, AND THAT WAS BEFORE NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION EVER WERE TURNED UP, I WONDER IF YOU THINK THEY EVER WILL BE FOUND. |
| 00:30:29 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | I SUSPECT THEY ARE PLANTING THEM THERE RIGHT NOW. [APPLAUSE] |
| 00:30:41 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WHY HAS THE PRESS PRETTY MUCH DROPPED THAT? DO YOU THINK THAT THE MEDIA HAVE BEEN SUBJECTING US TO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION? RIGHT NOW WHAT WE ARE GETTING IS BEYOND THE TRIMFANTALISM IS ALL THIS OTHER STUFF. BUT THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS WAR SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN FORGOTTEN OR PEOPLE ARE SAYING IT REALLY DIDN'T MATTER ANYWAY. |
| 00:31:08 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | I WOULD SAY A PEOPLE WITH WHAT WAS ONCE QUITE A GOOD REPUBLIC, NEVER PERFECT, BUT IT TENDED TO GET BETTER, OR LIBERAL, AS I EXPLAINED TO MR. CONES, I DON'T GO ON THE TV WITH THESE -- CONES, YEAH, AND I SAID -- WE WERE ON RADIO TOGETHER. I SAID SOMETHING ABOUT -- OF COURSE, PEOPLE OF YOUR POLITICAL PURCHASE SITUATION WANT THIS WAR. HE SAID NO, NO, NO, I'M THE LIBERAL. REMEMBER? AND HE MADE A MISTAKE. AS I HOPED HE WOULD. NEVER ANSWER A QUESTION THAT'S PUT TO YOU, PARTICULARLY IF YOU ARE THE QUESTIONER. SO I LET HIM GO ON A BIT AND THEN I SAID, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE WORD "LIBERAL" MEANS? I'M A CONSERVATIVE. I'M NOT A LIBERAL. YOU ARE A HOLLYWOOD LIBERAL. YOU ARE A THIS. YOU ARE A THAT. YOU USE THESE WORDS. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY MEAN. I SAID, WITHOUT LIBERALS WE WOULD HAVE NO SOCIAL SECURITY THAT WAS A LIBERAL ACT OF 1935. FROM ROOSEVELT IN CONGRESS. [APPLAUSE] WITHOUT THE LIBERAL ROOSEVELT WE NEVER WOULD HAVE HAD THE G.I. BILL OF 1945. WHICH GAVE A WHOLE NEW CLASS OF CITIZENS TO AMERICA. EVERYBODY COULD BE EDUCATED. SO I SAID, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE WORD MEANS? WELL, SHE HAD IT MEANS TO BE RELAXED, FREE ABOUT THINGS. I SAID NO, NO, NO, NO. I SAID, WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY, WHICH AS FAR AS I KNOW IS NOT A RED-FRONT DICTIONARY, DEFINES A LIBERAL AS SOMEONE WHO FAVORS POLITICAL ACTION TORE THE EXTENSION OF DEMOCRACY. AND MR. ALAN COLMES, I HAVE NEVER HEARD YOU IN THE FEW TIMES I HEARD YOU EVER HEARD YOU SAY ANYTHING THAT WOULD HAVE EXTENDED THE DEMOCRACY. TOLERANCE, PERHAPS. BUT DEMOCRACY NO. |
| 00:33:26 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WELL, MAYBE THAT EX--- EXPLAINS WHY IF WE INTERPRET THAT IN ANOTHER WAY SO MANY LIBERALS LIKE CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS, AND OTHERS SUPPORTD THIS WAR D THEY SEE THAT AS AN EXTENSION OF DEMOCRACY? |
| 00:33:44 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | I WAS NOT AWARE MR. GITLAN WAS EVER A LIBERAL. |
| 00:33:49 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | HE WAS A MEMBER OF S.D.S. AT ONE POINT. |
| 00:33:51 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | YES, EVERYBODY HAS BEEN A MEMBER OF SOMETHING SOMETIME OR OTHER. AND THEY GET FORGIVENESS. THE GREAT THING OF THE CHRISTIAN RITE WAS A CELEBRITY FOUGHTS ON BAD TIMES, BECOMES A DEVOUT BORN-AGAIN CHRISTIAN AND IS GIVEN WORK, GOES AROUND THE COUNTRY, HAS A WHOLE NEW CAREER. AS CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS APPOINTED HIMSELF MY HEIR YEARS AGO, AND I FOUND HIM VERY BRIGHT KID, I FIRST KNEW HIM WHEN HE WAS ABOUT 20 IN ENGLAND. A NEW STATESMAN. WE BOTH WERE UP FOR IT. HE HAD A SEAT CHANGE. SO HE'S NO LONGER MY HEIR. THE DOLPHIN I USED TO CALL HIM. OR DOLPHINO. |
| 00:34:55 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | MALT IS A -- MATT IS A WORTHY FIGURE. I NEVER FOUND HIM INTERESTING ON ANYTHING, YOU KNOW. I THINK THEY SEE THEIR OPPORTUNITY -- THE MONEY IS ON THE RIGHT. IF YOU NEED MONEY AND ATTENTION, THEY'VE GOT ALL THESE LITTLE PAPERS OUT THERE, WEEKLY, THEY HAVE ALL THESE -- MELON -- WHAT'S HIS NAME? MELON THINK TANK. THAT WAS WISDOM, TO ELECTRICITY UP ALL OF THE JETSOM OF THE INELECTUAL WORLD AND OVERPAY THEM AND HAVE THEM PRODUCE SPEECHES WHICH POOR W HAS TROUBLE MOUTHING. AT LEAST THEY ARE MAKING HIM SUFFER WHEN HE HAS TO READ ONE OF THOSE THINGS. [APPLAUSE] |
| 00:35:42 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | I HAVE BEEN ASKED TO REMIND YOU THAT CARDS HAVE BEEN HANDED OUT AND IF YOU WANT US TO ASK YOU A QUESTION, OBVIOUSLY WE ARE NOT GOING TO GET TO THEM ALL, BUT PLEASE WRITE YOUR QUESTION DOWN AND THEY WILL BE COLLECTED IN A FEW MINUTES. YOU TALKED ABOUT THE PATRIOT ACT. BUT YOUR HERO, AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, ONE OF YOUR MAJOR HEROES, WAS ABRAHAM LINCOLN. HE SUSPENDED HABEAS CORPUS DURING THE CIVIL WAR. DON'T PRESIDENTS ALWAYS TEND TO CUT BACK ON OUR CIVIL RIGHTS IN TIMES -- |
| 00:36:13 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | THAT'S IN -- LINCOLN ACTED UNDER THE CONSTITUTION. THE CONSTITUTION SAID IN CASE OF INVASION OR -- THE PRESIDENT MAY INDEED SUSPEND HABEAS CORPUS. IT'S IN ARTICLE -- WHAT IT IS. ARTICLE 4. NO, THAT'S ARTICLE I. ANYWAY, LINCOLN -- LINCOLN DID A LOT OF PRETTY BAD THINGS. I MEAN, HE COULD NEVER MAKE HIS CASE. HE WAS NOT AN ABOLITIONIST, AS WE KNOW. SO HE COULDN'T BE ON MORAL HIGH GROUND BY SAYING THAT -- HE WAS GOING TO KEEP THE SOUTH FROM SECEDING IN ORDER TO FREE THE SLAVES. HE HAD NO INTENTION OF THAT. HE WAS A UNIONIST. HE SAW THE COUNTRY WOULD BE BROKEN IN HALF WITH THE SOUTH. HE HAS TO THINK OF A REASON, LEGAL REASON, AND HE GOT INTO A RATHER MYSTICAL INTO BECAUSE THERE WAS NO CONSTITUTION. THE STATES HAD COME TOGETHER OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL, OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL THEY COULD PART. THAT WAS THE UNDERSTANDING FROM THE BEGINNING. SO HE SAID WHEN FINALLY CHALLENGED, HE SAID, WELL, I HAVE DONE THIS AND I AM COMMITTED. WE ARE COMMITTED TO A GREAT CIVIL WAR BECAUSE THESE STATES WANT TO GO. I HAVE AN OATH WHICH IS REGISTERED IN HEAVEN TO PRESERVE, PROTECT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES. AND THEY SHALL NOT GO. WELL, THAT'S HOW HE TOOK IT. IT IS JUST AS WELL SINCE IT WAS MY GREAT GRANDFATHER NOT I WHO HAD ON-TO-FIGHT IN IT. JUST AS WELL IT HAPPENED. |
| 00:37:52 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | YOU QUOTE ANOTHER OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS, JAMES MADISON N. WAR TO THE DISCRETIONARY POWER OF THE EXECUTIVE IS EXPENDED AND ALL THE MEANS OF SEDUCING THE MINDS ARE ADDED TO THOSE OF SUBDUING THE FORCE OF THE PEOPLE. SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING KARL ROVE WOULD HAVE WRITTEN. |
| 00:38:12 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | IT IS SOMETHING HE READ. |
| 00:38:13 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WHEN YOU QUOTED THAT, WERE YOU SAYING THAT THE WAR WITH IRAQ WAS WAGED IN ORDER TO SEDUCE OUR MINDS AND SUBDUE THE PUBLIC'S POWER? |
| 00:38:23 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WELL, YES. THEY ARE AFTER OIL. THEY ARE OIL PEOPLE. CHENEY T. BUSHES, RICE, TEXACO-EXXON. THERE ARE ABOUT EIGHT OF THEM. IN HIGH PLACES. NOW, WE CANNOT USE THE WORD CONSPIRACY ANYMORE BECAUSE THAT'S -- THE MEDIA WORKED OVER THAT ONE. IF YOU SAY SOMETHING IS A CONSPIRACY, OH, YOU BELIEVE IN FLYING SAUCERS, OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCES. I HAVE ADVISED ANYBODY ANY TIME I'M ON TELEVISION AND WE GET INTO THIS SUBJECT, I SAY IT IS NOT A CONSPIRACY. IT IS A COINCIDENCE. THAT THEY ALL WORK FOR OIL COMPANIES. AND CERTAINLY LIKE A WAR BECAUSE YOU CAN SUSPEND THE CONSTITUTION, BILL OF RIGHTS, MINE, JUST THINK OF THE -- IT IS BLACK COMEDY BUT THE COMEDY OF WE GIVE THE PENTAGON VAST MONEY WHICH BUSH THEN DECLIRS A WAR WHICH YOU CAN'T DO AGAINST TERRORISM. IT IS AN ABSTRACT NOUN. YOU CAN GEANS COUNTRY. SO HE GOES IN UNDER WAR TIME POWERS AND YOU CAN ALMOST SEE IT, COMMANDNER THE -- COMMANDER IN THE FIELD AND SAY OK, TAKE OUT THE RAILROAD STATION. WE'VE GOT A VERY GOOD MODEL FOR ONE NOW. YOU TAKE THAT OUT. THEY TAKE OUT THE RAILROAD STATION IN BAGHDAD. AND THEN IMMEDIATELY THEY HAVE ALREADY SIGNED A CONTRACT WITH THE GOVERNMENT TO REBUILD IT. THE IDEA THAT YOU MATE NOT -- MIGHT NOT KNOCK IT OUT AT ALL, YOU MIGHT LEAVE IT ALONE, DOES NOT OCCUR TO THEM. THAT WOULD BE TOO SIMPLE. SO A FORTUNE IS GOING TO BE MADE BY BUSH AND FRIENDS. AND THEN I -- ADVERT YET AGAIN TO BENJAMIN FRANKLIN. THIS IS NOT THE TOTAL -- IF THIS IS NOT THE TOTAL CORRUPTION OF A PEOPLE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS. |
| 00:40:21 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | DID YOU SEE THE LETTER THAT REPRESENTATIVE HENRY WAXMAN SENT TO DONALD RUMSFELD EARLIER THIS WEEK POINTING OUT HALOBURTON SUBSIDIARY COMPANY DID WORK IN LIBYA, IRAQ AND IRAQ AS RECENTLY AS 1999 IN SPITE OF U.S. SANCTIONS AGAINST THESE COUNTRIES AND HE WONDERED WHETHER THE H A LOBURTON SHOULD BE RECEIVING NEW LUCRATIVE CONTRACTS. I'M WONDERING WHETHER THEY SHOULDN'T BE BROUGHT TO TRIAL. |
| 00:40:49 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | OR SENT TO A REGION WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT. [APPLAUSE] AND HENCE, NO CONTRACTS. |
| 00:41:00 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | BUT IT IS INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THEY GOT AWAY WITH IT. |
| 00:41:06 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WELL, EVERYBODY GETS AWAY WITH EVERYTHING. I MEAN, THE MEDIA IS BOUGHT. THE MEDIA IS HOPELESS. IT HAS NEVER BEEN MORE ATROSHE US AND IT HAS NEVER BENCH GOOD IN MY LIFETIME, CERTAINLY. I'M READING A LOT OF 18TH CENTURY PRESS. AND IT WAS PRETTY LOUSY THEN. |
| 00:41:23 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | REALLY WENT AFTER CLINTON. HOW COME NOBODY IS GOING AFTER THIS MAN? |
| 00:41:28 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WELL, THEY WILL BECAUSE HE'S GOING TO FAIL. THE ECONOMY IS GOING TO CRASH. YOU CAN JUST GO ON AND SAY I'M SICK AND TIRED OF THE WAY THEY ARE ACTING OVER THERE. I'M SICK AND TIRED OF THE FACT THE PEOPLE DIDN'T TAKE THE OCCASION OF THE MIDTERM ELECTION TO CHANGE THE CONGRESS. |
| 00:41:55 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | THE POLLS REMAIN VERY STRONG FOR GEORGE W. BUSH. |
| 00:41:58 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | I DON'T BELIEVE THOSE POLLS. ANYBODY IN POLITICS OR IN SELLING ANYTHING IS THE WAY YOU ASK THE QUESTION. AND -- A COUPLE OF TIMES ON TELEVISION THEY ALLOWED SOMEBODY TO GET AWAY WITH SHOWING HOW IT HAPPENS. AFTER THE VICIOUS, GRIEVOUS ATTACK OF 9/11 BY MOSLEM ZEALOTS GEORGE BUSH WENT TO WAR FOR AMERICA AND FOR THOSE DEAD IN NORTHBOUND AND IN THE PENTAGON. AND HE'S FINALLY WON OVER OSAMA BIN LADEN AND OVER AFGHANISTAN AND OVER IRAQ. SADDAM . DO YOU APPROVE OF THAT? SURE, I DO. IF YOU PUT IT LIKE THAT. HE'S NOT POPULAR. ONCE THEY FIGURE OUT WHO HE IS -- WHO IS GOING TO TELL THEM? I HAVE -- AND YOU I CAN GO AROUND AND TALK TO AUDIENCES. "THE NEW YORK TIMES" WILL NOT COVER WHAT WE HAVE TO SAY. WE WILL BE BURIED, IF PRESENT AT ALL. ONLY CERTAIN THINGS CAN BE MENTIONED. OTHER THINGS PEOPLE ARE STYLENT ABOUT. I HAVE NEVER SEEN PEOPLE SO SILENT. WHEREVER YOU GO, THEY SEEM TO BE AFRAID SOMEBODY IS LISTENING. [APPLAUSE] |
| 00:43:22 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS? WHY DO YOU THINK ANY KIND OF CRITICISM IS BEING TREATED AS TREASON TODAY? THIS IS -- ARE WE RETURNING TO SOMETHING LIKE WHAT WE WENT THROUGH WITH MCCARTHY? |
| 00:43:34 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | THIS IS MUCH BIGGER THAN MCCARTHY. HE WAS ONE LONE PUBLICITY MAD SENATOR WHO GOT HIS IN THE END. THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS COUP TO SEIZE ALL THE OIL RESOURCES ON EARTH, IF POSSIBLE. CERTAINLY STARTING WITH IRAQ, PIPELINES THROUGH AFGHANISTAN. THIS IS AN ALL-OUT VENTURE THERE . THEN WHEN THEY SAW HOW EASY IT WAS TO PULL THIS OFF, AND NO VOICES SAID NO BECAUSE CONGRESS, THE DEMOCRATS WERE TOO AFRAID OF BEING ACCUSED OF YELLOW BELLY TREASON AND THEN THEY GOT BIGGER AND BIGGER AND THE THINGS THEY GRABBED. NOW THEY ARE DOING THIS TO THE BILL OF RIGHTS, THIS SMILING, THERE GOES DUE PROCESS OF LAW, BYE-BYE. THIS IS ATROSHEOUS STUFF. THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED TO US -- ATROCIOUS STUFF. WE NEVER HAD ANYTHING CLOSE TO IT. F.D.R. WAS A DICTATOR IN WORLD WAR II. HE DID LESS DAMAGE IN THE YEARS OF THAT WAR THAN THESE PEOPLE MANAGED IN A WEEK OR TWO. WITHIN THE COUNTRY, WITH THEIR PATRIOT ACTS AND ALSO TO THE ALLEGED ENEMY. IRAQ -- WE STILL HAVEN'T FOUND WHAT IT WAS THAT THEY DID THE TO US BUT WE KEEP LOOKING. |
| 00:44:55 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WELL, IF YOU -- WHY DO YOU PREDICT THAT GEORGE BUSH WILL LOSE IF, FIRST OF ALL, HE'S PRETTY MUCH TAKEN CONTROL OF THIS COUNTRY, AS YOU CAN SUGGEST, AND ALSO THE DEMOCRATS REALLY HAVE NOBODY OUT THERE. THERE ARE NINE CANDIDATES. I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU FAVOR RIGHT NOW. I WANT GEORGE MCGOVERN TO COME BACK INTO THE RACE. [APPLAUSE] |
| 00:45:21 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WELL, BY THE WAY YOU PHRASED YOUR QUESTION, YOU DELIVERED THE ANSWER TO IT. YOU PERSONALIZED IT. IT DOESN'T DEPEND ON ONE MAN OR ONE WOMAN WHO IS MAGNETIC AND SO ON AND BRILLIANT AND RIGHT-MINDED. IT DEPENDS UPON A CHANGE IN THE CITIZENRY THAT THEY THINK THEY CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT ANYTHING. THEY DON'T CARE AT THE MOMENT. IT'S TO MAKE THEM CARE. WELL, THE ECONOMY IS GOING TO CRASH. YOU CANNOT SUSTAIN AS MUCH AS $5 TRILLION OF DEBT WE NOW HAVE. MORE AND MORE MONEY FOR ARMMENTS. LESS AND LESS MONEY FOR VETERANS. -- MORE AND MORE MONEY FOR ARNAMENTS. |
| 00:46:06 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | TOO MANY PEOPLE LOST JOB. |
| 00:46:07 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | YESTERDAY 6% UNEMPLOYMENT IN THE LAND. THIS IS UNHEARD OF WHEN WE HAD A SURPLUS. SOME OF IT DONE WITH MIRRORS AND SMOKE BUT IT WAS A GENUINE SURPLUS AT THE END OF CLINTON. THAT JUSTLY GOT RID OF THAT. AND NOW THEY ARE GOING TO -- IN THE NAME OF CONQUEST IT WILL ALWAYS BE TO BRING LIBERATION TO THE ARAB PEOPLE. PEOPLE THAT WE HAVE ALWAYS CARED SO MUCH FOR. WE ARE GOING TO ROLL UP OUR SLEEVES AND GIVE THEM LIBERTY AND FREEDOM AND A COUNTRY JUST LIKE OURS. POOR BASTARDS. |
| 00:46:47 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | IN YOUR MOST RECENT BOOK YOU LINK THE EVENTS OF 9/11 WITH PEARL HARBOR IN WAY THAT IS OTHERS HAVE NOT. CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT? |
| 00:46:59 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | ROOSEVELT WANTED -- GENUINE LOVER OF NOT SO MUCH OF ENGLAND, YES, HE CERTAINLY HATED AND FEARED HITLER. AND AS OF 1940, AND I WAS VERY ACTIVE POLITICALLY, ALTHOUGH I WAS A SCHOOL BOY AT EXETER, I WAS THE HEAD OF THE AMERICA FIRST THERE BECAUSE WE WERE HAVING A GREAT DEBATE ABOUT WAR AND PEACE. I MEAN, EVERY SCHOOL WAS ARGUING ABOUT IT. AND THEN WE HAVE IRAQ, A HUGE WAR, AND NOBODY ARGUED ABOUT IT. I DIDN'T HEAR TWO SIDES EVER THAT MADE -- ANY COHERENCE. ROOSEVELT SAW THAT 80% OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DID NOT WANT TO GO TO WAR TO STOP HITLER OR TO GO TO WAR IN EUROPE FOR ANY REASON AT ALL, SAVE ENGLAND, RESTORE FRANCE. WE HAD IT IN 1917. THE FIRST WORLD WAR, THE ONLY THING IT BROUGHT US WAS PROHIBITION. NOT A GOOD THING IN LIBERAL LAND. AND ROOSEVELT THEN DID SOMETHING VERY DARING. IT HAS ALL BEEN PERFECTLY, I QUOTE CHARLES BEARD, HE WROTE THE FIRST BOOK THE SUBJECT, ROOSEVELT MANEUVERED THE JAPANESE WHO HAD A TREATY WITH THE ACTIONES POWERS WITH GERMANY AND ITALY TO COME TO THE AID OF EACH OTHER IN CASE OF WAR. HE GOT THEM TO ATTACK US IN PEARL HARBOR. HE KNEW PERFECTLY WELL SOMETHING WAS GOING TO MAP. AS FAR AS WE KNOW HE DIDN'T KNOW THEY HAD PEARL HARBOR IN MIND. FROM WHAT I GOT FROM MRS. ROOSEVELT SHE SAID WE EXPECT TO BE STRUCK. WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE MANILA, NEXT DOOR. WHICH SOMEHOW IS BETTER THAN PEARL HARBOR. THEY GOT THE FLEET. ROOSEVELT HAD BEEN RE-ELECTED PRESIDENT IN 1940. "I PROMISE YOU MOTHERS AND FATHERS, NO SONS OF YOURS WILL EVER SERVE OVERSEAS UNLESS WE ARE ATTACKED." HE WAS HONEST ABOUT HIS RESOLUTION TO THE PEOPLE. HE KEPT THE FAITH THERE. HE CUT OFF THEIR FUEL, OIL. THEIR OIL SUPPLIES. AND SCRAP METAL. JAPANESE HAD NOTHING LEFT TO DO BUT BOMB US. HOPING THEY COULD KNOCK US OUT FOR A YEAR OR SO WHILE THEY WENT DOWN AND GRABBED ALL THE OIL WELLS WHICH THEY PRETTY MUCH DID. BUT THEY HADN'T REALIZED -- A LOT OF PEOPLE REALIZED IN JAPAN REALIZED THIS WAS FATAL BLOW. THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT ANYWAY. THEN WE HAD A GREAT ALLY AT THAT TIME FOR ROOSEVELT GETTING US IN THE WAR. WHICH WAS HITLER. CLEVER OLD ADOLF DECLARES WAR ON US. WHICH GIVES, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THE GAME. NOW WE ARE IN THE EUROPEAN WAR. IT WAS FUNNY MOMENT AT THE NUREMBERG TRIALS FROM JUSTICE JACKSON, A PROSECUTOR. HE SAID JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY -- THIS IS DURING A FORMAL QUESTIONING, BUT HE SAID, AS AN ASIDE, HE SAID, WILL YOU TELL ME WHY HITLER DECLARED WAR ON THE UNITED STATES? AFTER PEARL HARBOR? WE HAD A TREATY. WITH JAPAN. SAID JACKSON Y. WAS THAT THE ONLY TREATY YOU EVER -- WHY WAS THAT THE ONLY TREATY YOU EVER HONORD IN 20 YEARS? |
| 00:50:20 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | ARE YOU SUGGESTING BY LINKING THE TWO THAT 9/11 WAS SIMILAR IN THAT WAY? WHETHER IT'S TRUE THAT F.D.R. KNEW OR NOT AND MANY HISTORIANS DISAGREE WITH YOU ON THAT -- |
| 00:50:33 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | I THINK FEWER. |
| 00:50:36 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | THAN DID GEORGE W. BUSH OR HIS ADMINISTRATION KNOW THAT OSAMA BIN LADEN PLANNED TO DO SOMETHING ON 9/11? |
| 00:50:44 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | YOU ARE ASKING THE WRONG PERSON. I'M NOT INTY MATE WITH THOSE PEOPLE SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY KNEW. ONE OF THE REASONS I NEVER WENT IN FOR JOURNALISM WAS THAT I DON'T LIKE TO GIVE MY OPINIONS AS FACTS. I LIKE TO GIVE THE FACTS, PREFERABLY FACTS THAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVEN'T FOUND OUT YET OR DON'T KNOW ABOUT. BUT NOW WE ARE IN THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY. AND WITH THIS GANG I WOULD SAY ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE. THERE'S NO PROOF. I LEAVE THE CHARGES TO OTHERS. OR THE PROOF. |
| 00:51:18 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | YOU HAVE -- THERE WAS AN ESSAY FROM AUGUST, 2001, YOU SAY JAMES BAKER, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE'S COUNSEL FOR IN-- COUNCIL'S POLICY WARNED HOUSE TERRORISM SING EVERYWHERE ON THE MARCH. THAT WAS A MONTH BEFORE 9/11 WROW THAT'S A. |
| 00:51:35 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | YES. WE WERE GETTING LOTS OF WARNINGS . WE KNEW MUBARAK AND PUTIN OF RUSSIA, THREE MEMBERS OF MOSAD HAD WARNED OUR GOVERNMENT THAT SOMETHING UNPLEASANT WAS GOING TO COME OUT OF THE SKY. WE DID NOTHING. |
| 00:51:55 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | YOU QUOTED A "NEW YORK TIMES" REPORT, AS EARLY AS 1996, PAKISTANI TERRORIST HRAD CONFESSED HE WAS LEARNING TO FLY AN AIRCRAFT IN ORDER TO CRASH A PLANE INTO C.I.A. HEADQUARTERS. |
| 00:52:08 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | THAT IS QUITE TRUE. THAT WAS IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES." PEOPLE SAY WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION? I ACTUALLY READ THESE NEWSPAPERS. AND ANYBODY WHO CAN READ AS MUCH OF THE "WALL STREET JOURNAL" AS I HAVE, BECAUSE THEY ARE VERY GOOD ON FACT STORIES, PARTICULARLY IF MONEY IS INVOLVED, AND I LEARNED A LOT FROM WATCHING IZZY STONE, OUR GREATEST JOURNALIST. [APPLAUSE] IZZY READ EVERYTHING THAT CAME OUT OF THE PRINTING OFFICE. SOONER OR LATER, THEY BLB EVERYTHING. -- BLAB EVERYTHING AND THEY KNOW NOBODY WILL EVER READ IT. IT JUST KEEPS COMING OUT. IZZY LOST HIS EYESIGHT, HIS GLASSES GOT THICKER AND THICKER. BUT HE WOULD READ THIS STUFF. THEN HE WOULD SEE A PATTERN. THEN HE WOULD BE THOUGHT OF AS A GREAT PROPHET BECAUSE HE COULD PREDICT WHAT WAS COMING. JUST FROM WHAT HE READ. I HAVE FOLLOWED THE SAME PATH AND 3450EU EYES ARE ALSO GOING. -- MY EYES ARE ALSO GOING. |
| 00:53:14 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | YOU SAY THAT BEFORE 9/11 THERE WAS A BUSH ADMINISTRATION PLAN TO ATTACK TALIBAN. WAS THAT AN EXTENSION -- |
| 00:53:19 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | NO, A CLINTON PLAN. |
| 00:53:20 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | CLINTON PLAN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION PICKED UP OR PUT ASIDE FOR A WHILE? |
| 00:53:24 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WELL, WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT CLINTON DECIDED TO GO AFTER OSAMA BIN LADEN, PRESUMABLY, IN AFGHANISTAN. CONTINGENCY PLANS WERE DRAWN TO STRIKE AT OSAMA BIN LADEN. AND HOWELL ABRAT IT WAS I DON'T KNOW. I THINK IT WAS PRETTY ELABORATE. I THINK IT WAS GOING TO INVOLVE INVASION. THEN CLINTON IS VOTED OUT OF OFFICE. THERE'S A NEW PRESIDENT. CLINTON DECIDES THAT IT IS NOT REALLY A FAIR THING TO DO TO PRESENT A BRAND-NEW PRESIDENT WITH WAR. WHICH HE IS -- HE HAS LAUNCHED. SO SANDY BERGER, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR, HANDED HIS SUCCESSOR, CON DOLL EASE A -- CONDOLEEZZA RICE, THIS PLAN. IT IS PRETTY MUCH IN THE WORKS. "TIME" MAGAZINE A. ARCANE PLACE, PUBLISHED A BIG STORY ON THIS LAST SUMMER. RICE SAID,BERGER NEVER -- BERGER NEVER GAVE IT TO HER. I DID. WELL, THEY DISAGREED. ANYWAY WHAT THEN HAPPENED AFTER 9/11 WAS PRETTY MUCH, WE ARE ALL TOLD, THE CLINTON PLAN. THAT'S HOW THEY COULD GET IT GOING SO QUICKLY. THEY THOUGHT IT THROUGH. |
| 00:54:56 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WE HAVE QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE AND MAYBE -- FIRST OF ALL, BEFORE WE DO THAT, DEFENDERS OF THE PRESIDENT WOULD SUGGEST THAT WHATEVER YOU SAY ABOUT THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN T. WAR WITH IRAQ, THE PEOPLE OF THOSE COUNTRIES HAVE TO BE IN A BETTER SITUATION TODAY THAN THEY WERE BEFORE WE WENT TO WAR. |
| 00:55:20 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WELL, THEY HAVE NO BUILDINGS. I'LL SAY THAT. A LOT OF THEM, YOU KNOW, WERE IN BAD TASTE. I MEAN -- IT IS URBAN RENEWAL. FORCED URBAN RENEWAL. YOU JUST HAVE TO DO THAT EVERY NOW AND THEN. I'M SICK AND TIRED OF PEOPLE WHO CRITICIZE ME FOR. THAT I GOT -- WE ARE GOING TO HAVE RANCH HOUSES UP AND DOWN THE EUPHRATES, RANCH HOUSES, TOO. IT IS GOING TO BE A BEAUTIFUL PLACE. REALLY BEAUTIFUL. YOU SEE, WE ONLY BRING GOOD TO PEOPLE. |
| 00:56:00 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | THIS PERSON -- THESE ARE QUESTIONS THERE THE AUDIENCE. THIS PERSON ASKS, DO YOU THINK FOX NEWS HAS A FINITE SHELF LIFE? WILL FOX GO THE WAY OF MORTON DOWNEY? |
| 00:56:11 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | OH, GOD -- |
| 00:56:12 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | YOU REMEMBER MORTON DOWNEY? |
| 00:56:14 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | OF COURSE I DO. TEARS ARE ALREADY WELLING IN MY EYES. WELL, LET'S SAY FOX DESERVES TO GO THE WAY OF MORTON DOWNEY, YES. AND THEY ARE SO EUPHORIC AND ALL SHOUT. IT HURTS, SUCH LOUD VOICES. THEY FORCE THEIR VOICES VERY HIGH. I WENT ON A COUPLE OF TIMES WITH CHRIS MATTHEWS. OH, HE SHRIEKS AT YOU. AND THE -- I ACTUALLY MET HIM AFTER -- I WAS IN L.A. AND HE WAS IN NEW YORK OR SOMEPLACE. WE DID A LONG-DISTANCE TV. I SAW HIM AT SOME BOOK THING. THEY HAVE ALL WRITTEN BOOKS. HE WAS SIGNING HIS BOOKS. THEN HE CAME UP TO ME AND HE SAID, I BET YOU ARE ME. I SAID I WAS ON TELEVISION WITH YOU. A FEW DAYS AGO. NO, NO, HE SAID, YOU CAME TO HOLY CROSS TO MAKE A SPEECH IN THE 1960'S. I SAID I REMEMBER THAT, YES. HE SAID, WELL, I WAS THE GUY WHO MET YOU AND BROUGHT YOU TO THE AUDITORIUM. I SAID, WELL, I HAVE A PRETTY GOOD MEMORANDUM -- MEMORY. I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. HE SAID, IF YOU THINK I'M AN ASSHOLE NOW, YOU SHOULD HAVE HEARD ME THEN. HE SAID, I ASKED YOU ALL THE SEXUAL PERFECT MISSIVENESS NOW WAS GIVING RISE TO THINGS LIKE -- GOD, WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THAT MOVIE? ANYWAY, AN IMMORAL MOVIE, IT WAS SO -- I MEAN, LIKE "MOTHER GOOSE" NOW. IT WAS SO INAIN'T. "ALFIE." LIKE ALFIE HAD GIVEN BIRTH -- IMMORTALITY HAD GIVEN BIRTH TO AL PHIL E. I WAS LAUGHING. HE SAID THAT'S WHAT YOU DID LAST TIME. |
| 00:58:34 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | ACTUALLY, YOU WERE AHEAD OF THE CURVE WITH A NUMBER OF NOVELS, ONE OF THE FIRST OPENLY GAY NOVELS IN AMERICA. BRECKENRIDGE BEFORE ANYBODY EVER THOUGHT OF TRANSEXUALITY. |
| 00:58:50 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | I THINK THEY THOUGHT OF IT. YOU SAID BEFORE -- |
| 00:58:52 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | PEOPLE THOUGHT OF IT. I MEAN -- WE KNEW ABOUT CHRISTINE JR. GONE-- JARGONSON ALREADY. NOT EVERY 16IER OLD COULD TALK ABOUT IT AS THEY CAN TODAY. IF PATRIOT ACT -- THIS PERSON ASKS, IF PAY TREE AT ACT II CALLS FOR DEPORTATION OF THOSE WHO CON SORT WITH TERRORISTS EVEN UNKNOWINGLY AND IF THE BIN LADEN FAMILIAR INVESTED $10 MILLION IF BECHTEL'S FINANCIAL GROUP WHERE SHOULD WE DEPORT BECHTEL? |
| 00:59:30 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WELL, NORTHEASTERN GUAM IS A VERY ATTRACTIVE PIECE OF REAL ESTATE. THERE'S NOTHING THERE BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD BRING IN PLANTS AND SO ON. YOU CAN EVEN MAKE IT LOOK LIKE SAN FRANCISCO WHICH IS WHERE THEIR HEADQUARTERS IS. PUT IN A CABLE CAR OR SOMETHING. |
| 00:59:46 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WE ARE IN AN ODD SITUATION WHERE BECTEL AND CLOSEST ALLIES IN THE MIDDLE EAST OTHER THAN ISRAEL, SAUDI ARABIA, HAVE ALSO SUPPORTED TERRORISTS. YET, WE SEEM TO LOOK THE OTHER WAY. |
| 01:00:03 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | THAT'S OUR JOB. WE DON'T CARE ABOUT ANY OF THESE THINGS. THIS IS ALL NOISE TO DISTRACT THE PEOPLE. TO CONVINCE THEM THAT SADDAM HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH 9/11. HE DIDN'T. HE HAD WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. HE DIDN'T. WE KNEW IT. EUROPEANS KNEW IT. THERE'S STILL REAL JOURNALISM GOING ON OVER THERE. THEY ARE NOT ALL THAT BETTER THAN OURSELVES BUT THEY ARE NOT QUITE SO DISHONEST. THEY DON'T QUITE FOLLOW CERTAINLY THE U.S.A. GOVERNMENT'S LINE. YOU DON'T READ ANYTHING IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES" NOW -- THEY HAVE A COUPLE OF GOOD WRITERS THERE LIKE KRUGMAN. [APPLAUSE] WHO OCCASIONALLY DARES TO TELL TRUTH WHICH SOMETIMES INVOLVES UNVEILING THE LIES OF THE ADMINISTRATION. THEY ARE NOT ENOUGH. AND TELEVISION IS HOPELESS. I TALK TO THE SET. I ANSWER QUESTIONS THEY DIDN'T ASK ME. I JUST TALK TO THEM. I TURN THEM OFF. |
| 01:01:15 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | INTERVIEWERS ON THE MORE CONSERVATIVE SHOWS HAVE OFTEN CRITICIZED YOU FOR LIVING OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY, I KNOW YOU ARE MOVE BACK TO THE U.S. NOW. BUT CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE SAID IF YOU LIVED IN FRANCE RATHER THAN ITALY? |
| 01:01:31 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | THE FIRST THING I WOULD HAVE SAID WITHOUT THE FRENCH WE WOULD STILL BE A DEPENDENCY OF ENGLAND. [APPLAUSE] OUR GEORGE DID NOT WIN THAT REVOLUTION. THE FRENCH FLEET DID AT YORKTOWN. AND FOR US TO GO AROUND, YOU KNOW, IN A SENSE DENOUNCING OUR BETTERS, THEIR CIVILIZATION IS OLDER AND BETTER THAN OURS. IT IS TRUE WE INVENTED CELLOPHANE. TO WRAP AROUND SMALL PIECES OF BAD CHEESE, YOU KNOW. I MEAN, WE HAVE OUR TRIUMPHS. |
| 01:02:24 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | THIS PERSON WRITES YOU SAY IT IS THE FAULT OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE HAVE A DECEMBER PIT IN POWER. WHAT ARE YOUR POUTS ON THE ANTI-WAR DEMONSTRATIONS HERE AND ACROSS THE WORLD? CAN THAT APPROACH BE EFFECTIVE? |
| 01:02:37 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WELL, WE HAVE NOTHING ELSE WE CAN DO. EXCEPT THE DEMONSTRATIONS. BUT THEN THE POWERS THAT BE, I WATCHED -- I WAS IN L.A. I WATCHED ON TELEVISION HOW BRILLIANTLY THE POLICE SAW TO IT NOBODY COULD OBSERVE ON THE TV SCREEN THE SIZE OF THE DEMONSTRATION HERE. IN L.A. I SPOKE TO 100,000 PEOPLE IN HOLLYWOOD BOULEVARD AND THEY HAD A STAGE AT ONE END AND THERE WERE 100,000 PEOPLE ALL THE WAY UP TO VINE STREET. AND I SPOKE TO 100,000. THEY HAD HELICOPTERS OVERHEAD SO THAT IF THE AUDIENCE GOT TOO INTERESTED THEY CAME DOWN VERY, VERY LOW AND MADE A LOFT NOISE. THEY FINALLY WENT AWAY. AND NOT A WORD. THE "L.A. TIMES" IS MUCH, MUCH BETTER THAN "THE NEW YORK TIMES." WHICH IS NOT SAYING MUCH BUT IT IS BETTER. AND IT DOES OCCASIONALLY FEEL OBLIGED TO TELL WHAT HAPPENED. HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE IN A CROWD. BUT THIS TIME THEY DIDN'T. THIS WAS THE BIG ONE. SO THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE SAID IT WAS 30,000 PEOPLE. PEOPLE SEEMED UNCLEAR ABOUT IT. LUCKILY, A PHOTOGRAPHER HAD DONE A SHOT BEHIND THE STAGE WHICH I HAPPENED TO BE SPEAKING THAT MOMENT, OF THE PEOPLE ALL THE WAY -- STRAIGHT LINE OF THEM UP TO VINE STREET. YOU COULD SEE IT WAS 100,000 PEOPLE THAT CAME OUT. THEY SAY NOBODY WAS THERE. AND THEN THEY HAVE THIS FROM A. -- THIS PHOTOGRAPH. |
| 01:04:13 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WE HAD THE FIRST ANTI-WAR DEMONSTRATION HERE, "THE NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTED A LOWER FIGURE THAN THE NEW YORK CITY POLICE DID. |
| 01:04:25 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WELL, NOBODY IS PERFECT. |
| 01:04:28 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | THIS PERSON ASKS COULD YOU COMMENT ON W IN HIS FLIGHT SUIT PARADING AROUND WHEN HE WAS AWOL FROM HIS NATIONAL -- WHEN HE WAS AWOL FROM HIS NATIONAL GUARD DUTY? |
| 01:04:46 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WELL, HE WAS -- HE CERTAINLY STAYED OUT OF THAT WAR. AND CHENEY -- CHENEY WHEN ASKED WHY HE PULLED EVERY STRING TO STAY OUT OF VIETNAM ACTUALLY ANSWERED "I HAD OTHER PRIORITIES." WELL, SO DID 13 MILLION OF US WHO SERVED IN THAT WAR. SO I THOUGHT THAT WAS A DARING -- THEY DON'T CARE WHAT THEY SAY. THE COUNTRY IS THEIRS. YOU SEE TODAY THE LITTLE BIO ON CHENEY I'S WONDERFUL. KICKED OUT OF YALE TWICE. THE QUESTION IS HOW DID HE GET IN. DRUNKEN DRIVING. THE CATALOG OF VICES AND ABUSES, ALL WE GET WAS CLINTON WAS A BAD MAN BECAUSE OF THAT INTERN. HE LOOKS LIKE GEORGE WASHINGTON NOW TO ME. |
| 01:05:50 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | HE'S GOT A JOB ON TELEVISION. THIS PERSON ASKS, IF IN THE UNLIKELY EVENT YOU WERE ASKED TO ADVISE A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE? WHY AN UNLIKELY EVENT? |
| 01:06:04 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | I ALREADY HAVE BEEN ASKED FOR ADVICE. I WON'T SAY WHAT I SAID. I WOULD SAY THAT THE -- THE MAIN LINE TO PURSUE IS TO EXPLAIN THE LOSS OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS. NOW, OUR PUBLIC IS SO BADLY EDUCATED THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS. AND IT IS NOT TAUGHT IN THE SCHOOLS PROPERLY. EVERYBODY IS VERY VAGUE ABOUT IT. NEVER USE THE WORD "PROGRESSIVE" AND NEVER SAY WE MUST GO FORWARD INTO THE FUTURE. NOBODY WANTS TO DO THAT. BECAUSE IT IS GOING TO BE DEATH SOONER OR LATER. DON'T DO IT. TO WIN YOU MUST ALWAYS GO BACKWARDS. WE MUST GO BACK TO THE ROOTS OF OUR REPUBLIC. YES, THAT'S RIGHT. WE PROBABLY SHOULD. AND I SAID A GOOD WORD IS RESTORATION. WILL HE US RESTORE THE BILL OF RIGHTS. [APPLAUSE] |
| 01:07:09 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | MRS. ROOSEVELT, WHO WAS SORT OF MY POLITICAL TEACHER, UPSTATE NEW YORK, WAS -- SHE WAS OPTIMISTIC ABOUT PEOPLE. THE PEOPLE. AND SHE SAID, YOU KNOW, IF YOU JUST TAKE THE TIME TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING, THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND IT IF IT IS INTERESTING TO THEM AND IF IT'S TO THEIR INTEREST, YOU UNDERSTAND. IT IS NOT DIFFICULT. THAT'S WHEN SHE WAS BEG ME TO TELL JACK KENNEDY NOT TO TALK SO FAST. SHE SAID, THEY CAN'T UNDERSTAND HIM. I TOLD HIM TO SLOW DOWN. HE SAID, ELEANOR ROOSEVELT TOLD ME I WAS TALKING TOO FAST? NO LOVE LOSS BETWEEN THOSE TWO. |
| 01:07:57 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | IF YOU COULD FORMULATE A NEW FOREIGN POLICY FOR THE U.S., WHAT WOULD THE FIRST THING BE THAT YOU WOULD DO? |
| 01:08:09 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | MIND OUR OWN BUSINESS. [APPLAUSE] THE COUNTRY FROM WASHINGTON THROUGH J.Q. ADAMS, AND LATER CONSERVATIVES TENDED TO ISOLATIONISM. THEY HAVE BEEN DEPICTED AS A BUNCH OF, YOU KNOW STICK-HEADED NEANDERTHALS AND DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ANYBODY. WE WERE ALWAYS A TRADING NATION FROM THE 18TH CENTURY ON. WE SUPPORTED OURSELVES BY TRADE. BUT WASHINGTON MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT WE MUST NOT HAVE SPECIAL FRIENDS OR SPECIAL ENEMIES. WE MUST HAVE GOOD WILL TOWARDS ALL, DO BUSINESS WITH ALL AND THAT WAS THE MOST YOU COULD EXPECT. |
| 01:08:50 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE IN RESPONSE TO 9/11? |
| 01:08:55 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WELL, FIRST I WOULD HAVE INVESTIGATED WHY IT HAPPENED. THEY DON'T DO THESE THINGS FOR NO REASON. [APPLAUSE] I WOULD HAVE GONE TO THE U.N. AND I WOULD SAY WE WANT A POLICE ACTION. WE HAVE BEEN HIT BY SOMETHING LIKE THE MAFIA. YOU DON'T -- YOU DON'T CALL OUT THE ARMY TO GO AFTER THE MAFIA AND APPALACHIA. IN ITALY, THEY CALLED OUT THE POLICE TO GO AFTER THE MAFIA AND THEY GOT A GREAT MANY OF THE LEADERS IN SICILY AND THEY DIDN'T BOMB POLERMO ONCE. |
| 01:09:35 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | DIDN'T YOU HAVE ASPIRATIONS FOR OFFICE ONCE? |
| 01:09:38 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | I DOUBLED THE DEMOCRATIC VOTE IN 1960 IN UPSTATE NEW YORK FOR CONGRESS. IT WAS MINE IN 1964. AND I DECIDED I DIDN'T WANT TO GO TO THE HOUSE. ING IN FACT, I HAD GONE BACK TO NOVEL WRITING. AND I THOUGHT IT WAS BETTER TO WRITE THAN BE ONE OF 600 -- HORROR OF ANIMITY. -- ANONYMITY. AND AS JACK KENNEDY ALWAYS SAID THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES IS A CAN OF WORMS. |
| 01:10:11 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | I ASKED THAT BECAUSE THE LAST QUESTION HERE IS WHEN ARE YOU ANNOUNCING YOUR CANDIDACY FOR THE PRESIDENCY IN 2004? [APPLAUSE] |
| 01:10:25 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | SEE YOU IN CONCORD. NEW HAMPSHIRE. |
| 01:10:26 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | WE HAVE RUN OUT OF TIME. I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING OUT HERE. |
| 01:10:51 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | GIVE ME YOUR HAND. |
| 01:11:17 | Heuvel, Katrina Vanden | GIVE THEM ONE MORE BOW. OK. m WRITING WITH NICKLAS BASBANES, GISTIN KAPLAN, AND ANN BERNASE. WE ARE BACK LIVE AT THE M NEWSPAPERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY. WE'RE AT PATHFINDER BOOKS. HI. HOW ARE YOU? I'M GOING TO LET YOU PRONOUNCE THE NAME. |