Time	Speaker	Text
00:00:14	>>	-- HE IS TRYING TO GET IN NOW THAT HE HAS ESTABLISHED HIMSELF IN PAKISTAN. IT HAS TAKEN A FEW MONTHS TO GET THE GOVERNMENT TOGETHER, INTO A POSITION IN THAT COUNTRY WHERE HE FELT HE COULD TAKE THIS KIND OF TRIP AND FEEL CONFIDENT THAT HE WOULD LAST LONG ENOUGH TO HAVE TO BE MEANINGFUL.
00:00:40	>>	UEST: HE WILL BE DOING A PUBLIC LECTURE LATER TODAY, HE WILL BE HITTING THE HILL, HE WILL BE HEAD AND AROUND TOWN, TALKING TO ANYONE WHO HAS AN INTEREST IN PAKISTAN.
00:02:24	>>	WE ARE COMMITTED TO FIGHT AGAINST THE EXTREMISTS AND TERRORISTS WHO ARE DESTROYING AND MAKING THE WORLD NOT SAFE. THIS IS OUR OWN MORE, THIS IS A WAR WHICH IS AGAINST PAKISTAN. WE WILL FIGHT FOR OUR OWN PATH. I HAVE LOST MY OWN LEADER, BENAZIR BHUTTO, BECAUSE OF THE MILITANTS. THEREFORE, I ASSURE THE UNITED STATES AND THE PEOPLE HERE THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN AND THE PEOPLE OF THOSE AREAS, THE LOYALISTS, THEY WANT THE PEACE IN THE WORLD AND I WANT TO POPULATE. THERE ARE FEW MILITANTS, HAND- PICKED PEOPLE, WHO ARE DISTURBING THE PEACE. I ASSURED MR. PRESIDENT, WE WILL WORK TOGETHER FOR DEMOCRACY AND FOR PROSPERITY IN THE PIECE OF THE WORLD.
00:06:36	>>	PAKISTAN IS A STRONG PLOT -- STRONG ALLY AND POWERFUL DEMOCRACY. WE SUPPORT THEIR SOVEREIGNTY AND DEMOCRACY. WE TALK ABOUT AREAS OF CONCERN. WE ARE GOING TO SPEND A LOT OF TIME ON THEIR ECONOMY, ABOUT HOW THE UNITED STATES AND PAKISTAN CAN CONTINUE TO COOPERATE, WITH ECONOMIC BENEFITS FOR ALL THE PEOPLE. WE TALKED ABOUT THE COMMON THREAD THAT WE FACE. EXTREMISTS. THEY ARE VERY DANGEROUS PEOPLE. WE TALKED ABOUT THE NEED FOR US TO MAKE SURE THAT THE AFGHAN BORDER IS SECURE AS BEST AS POSSIBLE. PAKISTAN HAS MADE A STRONG COMMITMENT TO THAT.
00:00:31	HOST	WHAT IS HIS SCHEDULE LIKE, HE MET WITH PRESIDENT BUSH YESTERDAY, WHAT IS ON HIS POCKET?
00:00:51	HOST	IT HAS BEEN MENTIONED THAT HE IS MEETING WITH JOHN MCCAIN AND BARACK OBAMA, WHY MEET WITH THEM? WHAT IS HE GOING TO BE SAYING TO THEM?
00:01:01	GUEST	HE PROBABLY WANTS TO HEAR WHAT THEY WANT TO SAY AS MUCH AS HE WANTS TO MAKE HIS OWN CASE. THE PRIME MINISTER IS CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THE FUTURE MIGHT HOLD UNDER A MCCAIN OR OBAMA ADMINISTRATION. I THINK IT WOULD LIKE TO GET A GOOD HANDLE ON HOW THESE GUYS THINK ABOUT PAKISTAN, DESPITE THE FACT THAT IT IS AN INCREDIBLE RECORD AN ISSUE, NEITHER CANDIDATE HAS GONE ON AT GREAT LENGTH ABOUT THEIR PLAN FOR PAKISTAN, SO I THINK THAT IS WHAT HE IS GOING TO WANT TO PROBE, ALSO MAKING A GOOD CASE FOR WHY THEY SHOULD SUPPORT THE SYSTEMS AND A CLOSER RELATIONSHIP.
00:01:36	HOST	THOSE CANDIDATES HAVE TALKED ABOUT INCREASING TROOP LEVELS IN AFGHANISTAN, HOW DOES THAT IMPACT PAKISTAN AND WITH DEEP PRIME MINISTER BEFORE IT OR AGAINST IT?
00:01:49	GUEST	I THINK HE WILL BE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF IT, HE WILL PLACE IT IN THE CONTEXT OF U.S. EFFORTS TO SHORE UP ITS ABILITY IN AFGHANISTAN. THE PRIME MINISTER HAS MADE IT CLEAR THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS IMPORTANT TO HIM INTO PAKISTAN. AT THE SAME TIME, I DO NOT THINK HE WILL STOP THERE. I THINK HE WILL PUSH THEM FURTHER, GETTING THEM TO COMMIT TO A RELATIONSHIP WITH PAKISTAN IN PARTICULAR, NOT JUST BY WAY OF AFGHANISTAN.
00:02:18	HOST	LET'S TAKE A LISTEN TO WHAT THE PRIME MINISTER HAD TO SAY YESTERDAY.
00:03:30	HOST	WHY IS HE BRINGING UP TERRORISM IN FRONT OF THE U.S. AUDIENCE?
00:03:35	GUEST	I THINK THAT THE PRIME MINISTER WANTS TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT PAKISTAN IS ON THE SAME SIDE AS THE UNITED STATES IN THIS FIGHT, HE HAS USED THOSE EXACT WORDS -- LAST NIGHT HE SAID IT IS NOT CHARLIE WILSON'S WAR, IT IS BENAZIR BHUTTO POSSIBLE WAR -- BENAZIR BHUTTO'S MOREWAR.
00:04:01	HOST	HERE IS THE RECENT ARTICLE FROM "WASHINGTON TIMES HERE " TERRORISM IS NOT THE TOP ISSUE IN PAKISTAN. -- WASHINGTON TIMES." TERRORISM IS NOT THE TOP ISSUE.
00:04:14	GUEST	THAT IS TRUE, THEY ARE NOT GETTING HALF ENERGY, FOOD. FOR TENS OF MILLIONS OF PAKISTAN IS, THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT THE MATTER. -- THINGS THAT REALLY MATTER. THE PRIME MINISTER IS IN A TOUGH SPOT, CONVINCING HIS OWN PEOPLE THAT THIS IS A PRIORITY, BUT HE WANTS TO MAKE THAT CASE AS STRONGLY AS HE CAN IN WASHINGTON.
00:04:39	HOST	WHAT IS THE TOP ISSUE FOR PAKISTAN?
00:04:42	GUEST	IS THERE NATIONAL ECONOMY, THEY ARE FACING A TOUGH TIME. HOURS OF EVERY DAY, NO ELECTRICITY. HIGH FOOD PRICES. THESE THINGS ARE NOT LIKELY TO CHANGE IN THE NEAR TERM.
00:04:54	HOST	WHAT SORT OF BARGAINING CHIP DOES THE PRIME MINISTER COME TO THE UNITED STATES WITH? WHAT CAN PRESIDENT BUSH USED IN THESE TALKS?
00:05:06	GUEST	I DO NOT KNOW ABOUT A BARGAINING CHIP, BUT I WOULD SAY THAT THE WHITE HOUSE HAS BEEN GENEROUS IN TERMS OF TRYING TO COME UP WITH THE SYSTEMS PROGRAMMING IN ADDITION TO WHAT WE HAVE, INCLUDING FOOD. IN THE NEAR TERM, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT $40 MILLION IN FOOD ASSISTANCE, RELATIVELY URGENT, WITH UPWARDS OF $115 MILLION FOR THE NEXT FEW YEARS. THAT IS THE KIND OF THING THAT THE UNITED STATES CAN DO FOR PAKISTAN THAT WILL WIN OVER THEIR LEADERSHIP TO GET THEM MORE COMMITTED TO WORKING WITH US AS A GOOD THING, AND HOPEFULLY WIN OVER A FEW CROSSES AND OUT THERE WHO HAVE BELIEVED, UP UNTIL NOW, THAT THE UNITED STATES DOES NOT HAVE THEIR INTERESTS AT HEART.
00:05:56	HOST	OVERALL IMPRESSION FROM MOST PAKISTAN IS ABOUT AMERICA?
00:06:00	GUEST	IS VERY POOR. THAT THE UNITED STATES IS IN A WAR AGAINST THE MUSLIM WORLD, THAT IS WHERE MOST PAKISTAN IS THINK ABOUT IT.
00:06:16	HOST	DANIEL MARKEY IS HERE TO TAKE YOUR QUESTIONS FOR THE NEXT 35 MINUTES. PRESIDENT BUSH ALSO MADE SOME COMMENTS YESTERDAY ABOUT OUR RELATIONS WITH PAKISTAN, HERE IS WHAT HE HAD TO SAY.
00:07:32	HOST	"BUSH PRAISES PAKISTAN JUST HOURS AFTER A U.S. STRIKE YOUR " AN AMERICAN MISSILE STRIKE DESTROYED -- U.S. MISSILE STRIKE." AN AMERICAN MISSILE STRUCK, KILLING AT LEAST SIX FIGHTERS. ONE THING THAT PRESIDENT BUSH SAID IS THAT WE RESPECT THEIR SOVEREIGNTY.
00:07:56	GUEST	THIS IS A GAME THAT IS BEING PLAYED, WHEREBY THE UNITED STATES IS REPEATEDLY, ACCORDING TO REPORTS, ATTACKING SITES THAT ARE LOCATED AND PAKISTAN, PROBABLY WITH THESE CREDITOR DRUMS. -- CREDITOR DRONE'S -- PREDATOR DRONES. THIS IS A FINE LINE TO WALK, BUT IT IS CLEAR, JUDGING FROM THE PAKISTANI REACTION, THAT THIS SORT OF ATTACK IS PROBABLY ACCEPTABLE. THEY WILL MAKE SOME SORT OF RESPONSE, THEY BOTH CLAIM THAT VIOLATIONS OF THEIR SOVEREIGNTY ARE UNACCEPTABLE, YET THIS WILL GO ON BECAUSE THERE RECOGNIZE THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS THE CAPACITY TO HIT TARGETS THAT THEY DO NOT. GASKET -- HOST: WHY THE SENSITIVITY WITH THE REMARKS? HOW DOES THAT PLAY OUT IN PAKISTAN?
00:08:52	GUEST	ALL OF THIS WAR ON TERRORISM IS NOT A POPULAR THING IN PAKISTAN. WHILE THE TOP LEADERSHIP IN THE COUNTRY, INCLUDING THE PRIME MINISTER, UNDERSTANDS CLEARLY SOME OF THE UNPLEASANT STEPS THAT NEED TO BE TAKEN, THE VAST MAJORITY OF PAKISTANIS WOULD BE AGAINST THESE THINGS. TO THE EXTENT TO THE UNITED STATES CAN KEEP ITS RHETORIC UNDER CONTROL AND DEMONSTRATE THAT IT DOES HAVE A GENUINE CONCERN FOR WHAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF PAKISTANIS BELIEVE OR WORRY ABOUT, IT COULD HELP TO WIN THEM OVER.
00:09:27	HOST	OUR GUEST IS THE SENIOR FELLOW FOR INDIA AND PAKISTAN AT THE HOUSE COUNCIL FOR FOREIGN RELATIONS. OUR FIRST PHONE CALL, MALDEN, MASS., INDEPENDENT LINE. . BE ON SECURITY AND MILITARY AFFAIRS INCLUDING EDUCATION, ENERGY, AND TO AGRICULTURE.
00:10:25	GUEST	IT IS TRUE THE PRIME MINISTER CAME TO THE U.S. WITH AN OPPORTUNITY TO BRING MORE MONEY HOME AND I THINK TO SOME DEGREE, HE HAS DONE THAT. FOR THOSE SKEPTICAL OF PROVIDING ASSISTANCE TO PAKISTAN, MY RESPONSE WOULD BE THAT WE COULD PROVIDE MORE NOW BEFORE THE SITUATION GETS WORSE AND PROBABLY MITIGATE THE SITUATION, MAKE IT SOMEWHAT BETTER. OR WE CAN WAIT UNTIL THINGS GET WORSE. UNFORTUNATELY, WE WILL HAVE TO CLEAN THAT UP AS WELL, AND THAT WILL BE MORE EXPENSIVE. THIS COULD BE MONEY WELL SPENT
00:11:02	HOST	--.
00:11:07	HOST	WORST-CASE SCENARIO?
00:11:11	GUEST	YOU COULD SEE A DETERIORATION OF SECURITY IN THE COUNTRY WHERE THE STATE COULD BECOME INCREDIBLY FRAGILE. I DO NOT THINK ISLAMISTS WILL TAKE OVER THAT THE STATE WILL BE INCREASINGLY INCAPABLE OF RESPONDING TO THE THREATS THAT AL-QAEDA AND OTHER TERRORISTS POSE, MAKING IT A DEFACTO HAVEN FOR THESE GROUPS, WHICH IS WORSE THAN WHAT WE ARE SEEING.
00:11:39	HOST	WESTPORT, CONN. REPUBLICAN LINE. CALLER: I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOUR POLICY ON ALL OF THE OPIUM COMING OUT OF AFGHANISTAN. I THINK IT WAS THE "NEW YORK TIMES" THAT REPORT AND THERE WAS MORE OPIUM COMING DOWN OF AFGHANISTAN NOW SINCE WE SEND OUR TROOPS IN THERE THAN ANY TIME IN HISTORY. SOLDIERS COMING BACK SAY THEY ARE PROTECTING THE OPIUM. THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE DOING. BOTH JOHN MCCAIN AND BARACK OBAMA, I BELIEVE THEY NEED SOME MORE WORK ON FOREIGN RELATIONS. I THINK WE NEED MORE TROOPS IN AFGHANISTAN. WE NEED TO GET OUT OF THAT WHOLE AREA.
00:12:42	GUEST	I DO NOT SPEAK FOR THE COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS, I SPEAK FOR MYSELF. THEY ARE A LARGE GROUP WITH ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE IN THE VIEWS. I AM EMPLOYED THERE. ON THE ISSUE OF OPIUM, AND I AGREE THAT THIS IS AN ENORMOUS PROBLEM. UNFORTUNATELY, THE PROBLEM OF GOVERNANCE, LACK OF GOVERNANCE, LACK OF LAW AND ORDER, IS MAKING THE OPIUM PROBLEM WORSE. AT THE SAME TIME, OUR FOCUS NEEDS TO BE ON SECURITY, AND FINDING POLITICAL SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEM. THIS OPIUM PROBLEM WILL BE WITH US FOR A LONG TIME TO COME. I DO NOT SEE ANY QUICK SOLUTIONS. THIS WEEKEND THERE WAS A LONG STORY PUSHING FOR MORE ERADICATION. I AM CONVINCED THAT HAD IS A SHORT-TERM SOLUTION AND THAT IS NOT GOING TO LAST LONGER THAN A COUPLE OF YEARS UNLESS WE CAN SHORE OF THE BASIC SECURITY ENVIRONMENT IN THAT COUNTRY AND FOSTER A GOVERNMENT THAT CAN CONTROL THE COUNTRY ITSELF. UNFORTUNATELY, THAT COULD TAKE MORE U.S. TROOPS.
00:14:02	HOST	EXPLAIN THE COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS.
00:14:10	GUEST	IT IS 3000 -- IT IS A GROUP CONSISTING OF 3000 MEMBERS, U.S. CITIZENS ONLY. THERE ARE SEVERAL DOZEN SENIOR FELLOWS STUDYING FOREIGN POLICY.
00:14:26	HOST	ARE BOTH PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES MEMBERS OF THIS?
00:14:32	GUEST	I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED.
00:14:36	HOST	NEXT PHONE CALL FROM GEORGIA. DEMOCRAT LINE. CALLER: I'M CALLING TO ASK THE GENTLEMEN IN QUESTION. WE ARE SPENDING BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS BUT WE NEED HELP AT HOME. WE TRIED TO GET SOME FOOD STAMPS BUT THEY WOULD NOT GIVE THEM TO US. [UNINTELLIGIBLE] IT SEEMS LIKE WE CARE MORE ABOUT THESE FOREIGN COUNTRIES THAN OURSELVES.
00:15:13	HOST	CAN YOU PUT THE PERCENTAGE OF THE BUDGET IN PAKISTAN COMPARED TO HOW MUCH WE SPEND DOMESTICALLY?
00:15:23	GUEST	PRESIDENT BUSH HAD A FIVE-YEAR, $3 BILLION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM OVERALL, WHICH WAS HALF MILITARY, HAVE THE ECONOMIC ASSISTANCE. HE IS RIGHT. IT DOES SOUND LIKE BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. WHEN YOU SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE LIVE IN PAKISTAN, 165 MILLION, THE MONEY DOES NOT GO AS FAR AS YOU WOULD EXPECT. UNFORTUNATELY, WHEN YOU SEE THE KIND OF POVERTY THEY ARE FACING -- I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IN IN THE UNITED STATES. THAT IS NOT TO SAY THAT OUR TAXPAYER DOLLARS NEED TO GO THERE, BUT THEY ARE FACING TREMENDOUS PROBLEMS. UNFORTUNATELY, THEIR ECONOMIC PROBLEMS, LACK OF OPPORTUNITY, IT IS CREATING SECURITY PROBLEMS FOR US THAT ARE MORE DANGEROUS AND MORE COSTLY TO TREAT BECAUSE WE HAVE TO SEND IN MILITARY SUPPORT. ULTIMATELY, IT IS A COST SAVING.
00:16:33	HOST	DOES THE MONEY THAT WE SEND OVER TRICKLE-DOWN? ARE THERE PROBLEMS OF CORRUPTION IN THE GOVERNMENT?
00:16:43	GUEST	UNFORTUNATELY, THERE ARE. MOST OF THE GOVERNMENT IN THAT REGION HAVE THAT. THAT SHOULD BE A PRIORITY AS WE MOVE FORWARD, ESPECIALLY IF WE FOLLOW A PLAN BEING ADVOCATED BY SENATORS BIDEN AND LUGAR TO RAMP UP AND THEIR CIVILIAN -- RAMP UP THE CIVILIAN ASSISTANCE. IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT WE HAVE GOOD MONITORING MECHANISMS AND OFFICIALS ON THE GROUND ADMINISTERING THAT ASSISTANCE, SO THAT WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE TREATING THESE PROBLEMS.
00:17:23	HOST	ALSO IN THIS TALK OF FINANCIAL AID IS HALF-16'S.
00:17:29	GUEST	THAT IS A TOUGH ONE. THE ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN CLEAR THAT IT INTENDED TO SELL F-16 AIRCRAFT TO THE PAKISTANIS. ONLY RECENTLY HAS THIS TURNED INTO AN ASSISTANCE PROGRAM. I THINK THE REALITY IS PAKISTAN IS UP AGAINST IN BUT IN -- BUDGET CRUNCH, PARTIALLY BECAUSE OF THE DOWNTURN IN THE ECONOMY, AND THEY PUT THE ADMINISTRATION IN A BIND. SO THEY CANNOT AFFORD THE UPGRADES ON THE AIRPLANES THAT THEY PURCHASE. IN THE LONGER TERM, HOPEFULLY, THAT MONEY WOULD GET SHIFTED BACK TO DO THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT WE CARE ABOUT MORE, COUNTER-TERRORISM ASSISTANCE, COUNTERINSURGENCY, AND NON- MILITARY ASSISTANCE THAT WILL HELP CREATE A PAKISTAN THAT IS ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF ITS PEOPLE.
00:18:35	HOST	MARYLAND. GOOD MORNING. CALLER: I AM CONCERNED ABOUT OUR RELATIONS WITH INDIA. WE WERE FRIENDS WITH PAKISTAN SINCE THE 1960'S. THE PAKISTANIS AND INDIANS ARE ARCH ENEMIES. I WONDER WHERE THIS PLACES US AS THE U.S.? DO WE TRY TO MAKE FRIENDS, DO WE TRY TO -- DO WE LET THEM BE ENEMIES?
00:19:13	GUEST	THE GOAL OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT OVER THE PAST EIGHT YEARS HAS BEEN WHAT YOU DESCRIBED. CORNING BOTH AT THE SAME TIME, RECOGNIZING THAT THEY HAVE BEEN ENEMIES. IN DOING SO, BUILDING UP POLITICAL CAPITAL ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER, DID BOTH SIDES TO TRUST AND RECOGNIZE THE UNITED STATES, SEE THE BENEFITS OF WORKING WITH THEM, AND BY EXTENSION, RECOGNIZING THAT THEIR ANIMOSITY TOWARD EACH OTHER HURTS THEM A LOT. AFTER 2002 WHERE THERE WAS A CERTAIN STANDOFF BETWEEN THE COUNTRIES, SINCE THAT TIME, WE HAVE SEEN A COOLING OF TENSIONS, WARMING OF THE RELATIONSHIP. AT THIS POINT, I THINK THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A BREAKTHROUGH BETWEEN THESE COUNTRIES, AND THAT THEY THEMSELVES, WILL SEE IN THEIR BEST INTEREST. I THINK WE CAN HOPE THAT THE RELATIONSHIP IS GETTING BETTER.
00:20:22	HOST	REPUBLICAN LINE. BALTIMORE, MD. CALLER: I HAVE BEEN FALLING PAKISTAN'S ACTIVITY AND IT SEEMED TO BE BETWEEN THE MILITARY ESTABLISHMENT, LOOKING NORTH. THEIR FOCUS IS ON SOME SORT OF CATACLYSMIC BATTLE WITH THE INDIANS. OF COURSE, OURS IS WITH AFGHANISTAN. I AM WONDERING HOW WE DEAL WITH THE FACT THAT THE ISI HAS ALIGNED WITH THE TALIBAN AS A WAY TO FIGHT AGAINST INDIA. MY SECOND QUESTION IS WHEN WE STOPPED TO TALK ABOUT LAWLESS TRIBAL REGIONS, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT PAKISTAN BEING A MERELY FAILED STATE WITH NUCLEAR WEAPONS? THAT SCARES ME A LOT.
00:21:38	GUEST	I THINK THE PAKISTANI HISTORICAL FOCUS ON INDIA IS ONE OF THE MOST CHALLENGING THINGS THAT THE U.S. FACES RIGHT NOW. TRYING TO REORIENT THE INTELLIGENCE, ISI, ARMY, AND TRANSFORM THEM INTO A COUNTER- TERRORISM ORGANIZATION. THAT IS MORE FIXED ON THEIR WESTERN BORDERS,. PART OF THAT IS PROMOTING A POLITICAL RECONCILIATION WITH INDIA AND INVESTING IN NEAR INSTITUTIONAL STRUCTURES SO THAT THEIR ARMY BECOMES CAPABLE OF DOING COUNTERINSURGENCY. IT IS IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT OUR OWN MILITARY, UP UNTIL RECENTLY, WAS NOT VERY EFFECTIVE IN THAT AREA. THE PAKISTANI ARMY COMES INTO THIS PRETTY HANDICAPPED. THEY ARE NOT BUILT TO DO THIS. THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. AT BEST, IT WILL ME FOR YEARS, FIVE YEARS BEFORE WE SEE SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT. DESPITE THE FACT THAT IT WILL BE FRUSTRATING, WE PROBABLY NEED A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF PATIENCE WHICH MIGHT SEEM UNREASONABLE NOW THAT IT IS SO LONG AFTER 9/11, BUT THAT IS WHERE WE ARE.
00:23:11	HOST	WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THOSE NUCLEAR WEAPONS? ARE THEY SECURED?
00:23:17	GUEST	SPEAKING TO PAKISTANI MILITARY, THEY ARE CONVINCED THAT THEY ARE SECURED. OF COURSE, THEY HAVE EVERY INTEREST IN MAKING US BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE SECURE IN MAKING THEM TO CARE BECAUSE THEY SEE THEM AS THEIR GUARANTEE AGAINST INDIA. WHILE WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE WEAPONS SLIPPING INTO THE HANDS OF MILITANT GROUPS, THEY ARE CONCERNED THAT ANY MOMENT HAVE A SENSE OF WHERE THEIR WEAPONS ARE, HOW TO GET A HOLD OF THEM, BECAUSE THAT WOULD RENDER THEM LESS-PROTECTED AGAINST THE INDIAN PRESS. THEY HAVE DEVOTED QUITE A LOT OF ATTENTION INTO SECURING THESE WEAPONS. AT THE SAME TIME, GEOGRAPHICALLY, IT IS THREATENING TO HAVE GROUPS LIKE AL QAEDA IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO SOME OF THE MOST DANGEROUS WEAPONS ON EARTH.
00:24:13	HOST	ANOTHER PHONE CALL FROM BALTIMORE, MARYLAND. DEMOCRAT LINE. CALLER: IT HAS BEEN SO LONG SINCE 9/11 AND WE HAVE NOT GOTTEN YOUR USAMA BIN LADEN. WE MAY HAVE GOTTEN SOME OF HIS LIEUTENANTS. THEY SAY HE IS IN BETWEEN AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN. WILL THIS NEW PRIME MINISTER ALLOW OUR MILITARY INTO THIS SMALL AREA TO SEE IF WE CANNOT TRACK HIM DOWN?
00:24:46	GUEST	THE SHORT ANSWER IS, NO. I DO NOT THINK THAT THE PRIME MINISTER IS INTERESTED IN SEEING U.S. TROOPS ON THE GROUND, ANYWHERE, EVEN IN THE TRIBAL AREAS. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE VIEWED BY PAKISTANIS IN GENERAL AS A VIOLATION OF THEIR SOVEREIGNTY, NOT SOMETHING THAT THEY ARE INCLINED TO DO. THE BEST THAT WE CAN HOPE FOR, OVER TIME, THE PAKISTANI WILL BE TRUSTING OUR MILITARY AND WILL BE WILLING TO WORK WITH US. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT REALLY NEEDS TO BE WORKED ON. I WOULD ALSO RECOMMEND TAKING A CLOSE LOOK AT THE GEOGRAPHY HERE. IT IS A SMALL AREA, ABOUT THE SIZE OF MARYLAND, BUT IT IS INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT TERRAIN. THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR SMALL GROUPS OF INDIVIDUALS TO HIDE IN THIS TERRAIN ARE QUITE GOOD. IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT AREA TO CONTROL, CONTROL THE BORDER. YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ELEVATION DIFFERENCES THAT ARE TREMENDOUS, EVEN OVER SEVERAL KILOMETERS. IT MAKES IT VERY HARD FOR THE MILITARY TO KEEP TRACK OF THINGS.
00:26:07	HOST	DO WE HAVE COVERT OPERATION GOING ON IN PAKISTAN?
00:26:12	GUEST	I BELIEVE WE HAVE COORDINATION WITH THE PAKISTANI PEOPLE THEMSELVES, BUT ON THE GROUND, I'M NOT SURE ABOUT SPECIAL FORCES.
00:26:25	HOST	NEXT PHONE CALL. NEW YORK. CALLER: CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR MARRIAGE. I DO NOT THINK THAT THESE GROUPS ARE VERY FAR APART. WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT?
00:26:38	GUEST	ABSOLUTELY. CALLER: YOU ARE HERE FOR YOUR OPINION AND I WILL NOT ASK WHO WE WILL VOTE FOR, BUT WOULD YOU AGREE THAT DURING THE DEBATES -- THE DEMOCRATIC DEBATES -- WHEN SENATOR OBAMA SAYS THAT HE IS GOING TO GO OVER THE BORDER. I THOUGHT HIM A PUTTING THAT OUT THERE OPENLY WAS INAPPROPRIATE.
00:27:18	GUEST	MY SENSE IS THAT SOME OF HIS REMARKS ARE GEARED TOWARD A U.S. DOMESTIC AUDIENCE AND HAVE NOT PLAYED WELL IN PAKISTANI. THEY HAVE BEEN SEEN AS THREATENING. THE PRIME MINISTER MAY RAISE SOME OF THESE REMARKS WHEN HE MEETS WITH SENATOR OBAMA. SOME OF THESE THINGS ARE HOT- BUTTON ISSUES.
00:27:45	HOST	YOUR COMMENT? CALLER: I WOULD LIKE TO SAY IN A FEW THINGS ABOUT VICE PRESIDENTIAL -- BARACK OBAMA'S VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE. I WOULD RECOMMEND YOU.
00:28:01	HOST	WE ARE GOING TO MOVE ON. MILLERSVILLE, GA. CALLER: THE WAR GOING ON IN IRAQ IS NOT BENEFITING US. WE NEED TO BE POLICING OUR OWN COUNTRY. HEZBOLLAH IN LEBANON -- REMEMBER THAT SITUATION.
00:28:25	HOST	YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER TO TURN DOWN YOUR TELEVISION. PITTSBURGH. GOOD MORNING. CALLER: WE SUPPLY $10 BILLION TO PAKISTAN BUT WE DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO QUESTION THE NUCLEAR PROLIFERATORS WHO HAS SUPPLIED IRAN, NORTH KOREA -- WHO KNOWS WHERE HIS INFORMATION HAS GONE? WHAT IS WRONG WITH US?
00:28:52	GUEST	THERE ARE A COUPLE OF ISSUES GOING ON HERE. THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION SUGGEST THAT THEY RECEIVED ALL THE INFORMATION THEY NEEDED FROM THIS PERSON WHO WAS RUNNING THIS MAJOR PROLIFERATION NETWORK, WHICH OBVIOUSLY WAS A PRIMARY PROBLEM IN TERMS OF SPREADING WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION TO COUNTRIES LIKE LIBYA, IRAN, NORTH KOREA. THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION SAYS THEY HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION THEY NEED FROM HIM AND HAVE BEEN ABLE TO UNRAVEL THIS PROBLEM OF PROLIFERATION. I DO NOT KNOW IF THEY EVER GOT TO QUESTION HIM DIRECTLY. THE PROBLEM GOES BACK TO THE POLITICAL SENSITIVITIES WITHIN PAKISTAN. FOR US, HE IS A VILLAIN. FOR MANY PAKISTANIS, HE IS PERHAPS THE NEXT CHOICE FOR PRESIDENT. HE IS CONSIDERED A NATIONAL HERO. HE IS BELIEVED TO HAVE BROUGHT PUKKA STUNNED NUCLEAR CAPACITY TO PROTECT THEM FROM INDIA. FOR ALL OF THOSE REASONS, HANDING HIM OVER TO U.S. AUTHORITIES WOULD HAVE BEEN DISASTROUSLY UNPOPULAR FOR THE GOVERNMENT. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY COSTLY TO PRESIDENT MUSHARRAF AND ANY GOVERNMENT IN PAKISTAN TO DO THAT. YOU HAVE TO SEE IF THESE ARE THE KINDS OF BATTLES THAT WE, THE UNITED STATES, WANT TO FIGHT. OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVE GIVEN GENEROUSLY TO PAKISTAN AND WE HAVE THINGS THAT WE PLACE AT THE HIGHEST PRIORITIES. OTHER THINGS ARE COUNTERPRODUCTIVE. I WOULD PUT THIS IN THAT AREA.
00:30:49	HOST	WHAT ARE THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE PRESIDENTS AND PRIME MINISTER OF PAKISTAN?
00:31:00	GUEST	THE PRESIDENT IS SEEN AS A RADIOACTIVE RIGHT NOW. THE OTHER LEADERS OF PAKISTAN ARE LOOKING AT WAYS OF GOING ABOUT THEIR BUSINESS WITHOUT BEING TARRED BY HIS OWN POPULARITY. WELL AS CURRENT GOVERNMENT AND PRIME MINISTER HAS MET WITH HIM AND HAVE BEEN CORDIAL AND POLITE, THEY HAVE NO INTEREST IN BECOMING CLOSE BECAUSE HE IS SO UNPOPULAR THAT IT WILL WEAR OFF ON THEM.
00:31:27	HOST	TAMPA. INDEPENDENT LINE. CALLER: DO YOU FIND IT FUNNY AND THAT ALL OF THESE COUNTRIES THAT WE ARE AT WAR AGAINST HAVE NO WEAPONS? WHY WOULD THEY EVEN WANT TO GET IN A WAR WITH US? THIS IS A SET UP. PRESIDENT BUSH IS A BULLY IN THE WHITE HOUSE. I DO NOT BELIEVE ANY OF THESE COUNTRIES HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH 9/11. I THINK IT WAS A SET OF PARENTS ARE OUR OWN MILITARY. THEN THE BLAME THESE SMALL COUNTRIES AND TERRORIZE THEM. LIKE BUSH SAID ON TV, IF YOU NOT IN -- IF YOU DO NOT JOIN US, YOU ARE AGAINST US. HE IS THREATENING THESE COUNTRIES.
00:32:22	GUEST	I COULD NOT DISAGREE WITH THE MORE WITH THE IDEA THAT 9/11 WAS A SET UP. THAT WAS COMPLETELY WRONG. I THINK IT IS ALSO UNFORTUNATE THAT, IN THE YEARS SINCE 9/11, U.S. BEHAVIOR HAS BEEN PERCEIVED IN MANY PARTS OF THE WORLD AS BULLYING. THAT IS ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WE FACE. AL QAEDA IS NOT A FABRICATION. THESE JOPPATOWNE NEED TO BE MET BY THE UNITED STATES FORTHRIGHTLY, AND SOMETIMES WITH HEAVY USE. WE ALSO NEED TO DO THIS IN A WAY THAT WINDS OVER OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD. TO THE EXTENT THAT WE ARE SEEN AS A BULLY OR THAT OUR FIGHT IS A WAR AGAINST THE MUSLIMS, THAT IS A PROBLEM. WHICH EVER ADMINISTRATION COMES NEXT, THIS IS THE SORT OF THING THAT THEY WILL HAVE TO ADDRESS.
00:33:24	HOST	IS USAMA BIN LADEN IN PAKISTAN? WANTHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT CONVERSATION?
00:33:35	GUEST	I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE HE IS BUT EVERYBODY BELIEVES HE IS IN THE TRIBAL AREAS, PERHAPS GOING BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN PAKISTAN AND AFGHANISTAN. THIS IS INCREDIBLY TOUGH TERRAIN WHERE PEOPLE CAN HIDE. NOBODY FROM THE OUTSIDE COMES IN THERE ON A REGULAR BASIS, SO LOCALS CAN KEEP TRACK OF THE COMINGS AND GOINGS OF EVERYBODY. IT IS DIFFICULT TO GET ANY KIND OF INTELLIGENCE. THESE ARE THE KINDS OF PLACES THAT MAKE GREAT HIDING PLACES FOR SOMEONE LIKE USAMA BIN LADEN. THE DEBATE ON WHERE HE IS AND WHY WE HAVE NOT GOTTEN HIM, I AGREE WITH FRUSTRATIONS. IT IS PRETTY SHOCKING THAT AFTER SEVEN YEARS WE DID NOT CAPTURE HIM. I THINK IT IS A POINT OF INCREDIBLE FRUSTRATION FOR THE BUSH SHOULD MINISTRATION. TO BE LEAVING OFFICE AND HAVING THIS BIT OF THE UNFINISHED BUSINESS, I BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE DOING WHAT THEY CAN TO COUNTER INTELLIGENCE AND GET PEOPLE IN THE AREA SO THAT THEY CAN BE LISTENING. THIS JUST GETS AT THE PROBLEM. THIS IS A TOUGH INTELLIGENCE AND MILITARY PROBLEM.
00:34:58	HOST	ON THE DEMOCRATIC LINE. RICHMOND, VA. CALLER: I JUST WANT TO SAY WHY THE UNITED STATES IS A BULLY. YOU SIT BACK AND THINK PEOPLE THAT YOU KEPT BACK IN THE PROGRESS OF MAKING MONEY AND MAKING YOURSELF LOOK BIG TOWARD THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD, THINK AGAIN. I DID NOT GET FARTHER THAN THE EIGHTH GRADE AND I SEE THROUGH YOU. YOU TALK ABOUT THE BOMBS, NUCLEAR WEAPONS, ALL THE PEOPLE THAT YOU CAN KILL PEOPLE WITH.
00:35:42	HOST	NEXT PHONE CALL. DEACON, PENNSYLVANIA. CALLER: GETTING BACK TO THE WAR ON DRUGS, HOW MUCH MONEY HAVE WE SPENT SINCE WE STARTED THIS WAR ON DRUGS? MY SOLUTION WOULD BE TO BUY ALL OF THE POPPY FROM AFGHANISTAN. THEN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT COULD DESTROY IT OR MAY BE USED IN HOSPITALS. WHAT WOULD BE WRONG WITH THAT?
00:36:15	GUEST	I DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE TOTAL FIGURE IS IN TERMS OF HOW MUCH WE HAVE SPENT ON THE WAR OF DRUGS -- WAR ON DRUGS IN AFGHANISTAN. IT IS IN THE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS. THE PROBLEM WITH BUYING OPIUM IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN RAISED IN RESPONSE TO A PROPOSAL BROUGHT FORWARD BY A COUNCIL. NOT JUST BUY IT, BUT LEGALIZE THE PRODUCTION OF IT IN THE COUNTRY FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES. IT IS A PRETTY PROFESSIONAL PROPOSAL. THE PROBLEM IS WHEN YOU BUY THIS, YOU CREATE A NEW MARKET AND CONVINCED AFGHANS THAT THE BEST WAY TO MAKE MONEY IS TO FARM THIS STUFF, INSTEAD OF LEGAL PRODUCE. THAT TAKES YOU DOWN THE PATH WHERE YOU CREATE AN EVEN LARGER PRODUCTION AND IT HAS INVESTED EVERY ASPECT OF AFGHAN SOCIETY, CORRUPTING OFFICIALS, AND PROBABLY MAKING THE WHOLE REGION LESS-SECTOR. AS SOON AS YOU START TO BUY SOMETHING, YOU START TO SUBSIDIZE IT. EVEN THOUGH YOU SAY IT IS A ONE- TIME DEAL, FARMERS WILL THINK THAT IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN. IT IS HARD TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN THIS. I BELIEVE THE EARLY PHASES OF COUNTER-NARCOTICS, THE BRITISH DID TRY TO MAKE SOME PURCHASES FROM THE FARMERS WITH THE PROMISE THAT THEY WOULD NOT GROW AGAIN AND I BELIEVE IT WAS A FAILURE.
00:37:54	HOST	I WANT YOUR REACTION TO A HEAD -- SUSPECTED ISLAMIC MILITANTS PUMPED UP TO TROOPS AND PARAMILITARY.
00:38:11	GUEST	THIS GETS TO THE PROBLEM THAT PAKISTAN IS FACING. THIS IS NOT AL QAEDA. AND THIS IS OTHER MILITANT GROUPS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE AFFILIATED WITH THE TALIBAN OF AFGHANISTAN. THIS IS A REGION ALONG THE BORDER THAT HAS BEEN ESSENTIALLY TURNED INTO A HOTBED FOR ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT MILITARY GROUPS. THEY HAVE, FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS, TURNED AGAINST THE PAKISTANI STATE. THIS IS THEIR FEAR. THAT RATHER THAN ORIENTING THEMSELVES FOR THE ACTIVITY OF AFGHANISTAN, THEY ARE TURNING INWARD TO PAKISTAN, KILLING PAKISTANI CITIZENS, INTELLIGENCE OFFICERS, POLICE, MAKING THEIR OWN COUNTRY LESS SECURE.
00:39:05	HOST	LAST PHONE CALL FROM MINNESOTA. CALLER: GOOD MORNING. MR. MARKEY, CAN YOU COMMENT ON THE AFGHANISTAN NATURAL BUT ONE THAT THEY HAVE BEEN TRYING TO BUILD FOUR YEARS? I THINK THE REASON WE WENT INTO AFGHANISTAN WAS NOT BECAUSE OF THE TERRIBLE REGIME THAT WAS THERE BUT BECAUSE THEY WOULD NOT LET US BUILD THIS NATURAL GAS PIPELINE FROM THE RESERVES IN THE NORTH AND NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES. AFGHANISTAN IS A LAND-LOCKED COUNTRY AND WE ARE BEING FRIENDLY WITH PAKISTAN BECAUSE THEY WANT TO GO THROUGH PAKISTAN TO GET THIS NATURAL GAS.
00:40:01	GUEST	I DISAGREE WITH THE IDEA THAT THEY WENT INTO AFGHANISTAN TO BUILD A PIPELINE. THIS IS CLEARLY AN IMMEDIATE RESPONSE TO THE 9/11 ATTACKS WHICH WERE PLANNED BY AL QAEDA, BASED IN AFGHANISTAN. I BELIEVE IF THEY COULD BUILD A PIPELINE, IT WOULD PROBABLY BENEFIT AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN, AS WELL AS CENTRAL ASIA, WHERE THE GAS WOULD COME FROM, AND ALSO INDIA WHO DESPERATELY NEED IT. THIS IS A LONG WAYS OFF. TURKMENISTAN IS A DIFFICULT COUNTRY TO WORK WITH AND THAT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANY TIME SOON. THIS MAY NOT BE A PROFITABLE VENTURE FOR AT LEAST 10 YEARS. HOPEFULLY, WE WILL BE IN THE WORLD WHERE THERE ARE OTHER ENERGY SOURCES THAT ARE MORE EASILY TAPPED THAN A PIPELINE LIKE THIS.
00:41:03	HOST	YOU HEARD THE PRIME MINISTER SPEAK. WHERE WERE YOU?
00:41:09	GUEST	IT WAS AT THE PAKISTANI EMBASSY. THEY HAD A RECEPTION DINNER FOR HIM. THERE WERE PEOPLE THERE THAT ARE FRIENDLY TO PAKISTAN OR HOPE THAT THE U.S.-PAKISTAN RELATIONSHIP WILL SUCCEED. I THINK HE PUT ON A GOOD SHOW. HE SAID THE THINGS SIMILAR TO WHAT HE SAID ON THE WHITE HOUSE LAWN AND BELIEVES HE HAS A COMMITMENT AND CAN PUSH FORWARD ON THOSE ISSUES WE CARE ABOUT MOST.
00:41:41	HOST	ANY WASHINGTON NOTABLES THERE?
00:41:45	GUEST	YES, BUT I SHOULD PROBABLY NOT NAME THEM. PEOPLE FROM ALL DIFFERENT AREAS. FORMER DIPLOMATS, JOURNALISTS, THAT SORT OF THING.