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| TIME | SPEAKER | TEXT |
|---|---|---|
| 00:05:53 |
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GOOD MORNING. THANK YOU. BANKRUPTCY IS MENTIONED IN THE CONSTITUTION, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ARE... |
| 00:11:47 |
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YOU ARE WELCOME. I THINK THE RANKING MEMBER FOR HIS STATEMENT. IT IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR THE RANKING... |
| 00:12:20 |
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DO YOU ARE FROM THE TESTIMONY YOU ARE ABOUT TO GIVE IT IS THE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? |
| 00:12:27 |
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I DO. |
| 00:12:34 |
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OUR FIRMNESS WILL BE -- FIRST WITNESS WILL BE CARRIED BURNS FROM COVENTRY, RHODE ISLAND. I AM PLEASED... |
| 00:12:47 |
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MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE, THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE. MY NAME IS CARRIED BURNS. ... |
| 00:19:16 |
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THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN WHITEHOUSE. SPEAKING AFTER HER IS DIFFICULT BECAUSE SHE IS EXACTLY THE REASON... |
| 00:24:56 |
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THANK YOU. PROFESSOR POTTOW? |
| 00:25:09 |
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I AM GOING TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT MONDAY AND ANTICIPATORY DEFENSIVE POSTURE REGARDING WHAT... |
| 00:30:22 |
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THANK YOU. |
| 00:30:28 |
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THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME TO TESTIFY BEFORE THE COMMITTEE TODAY. BEFORE I BEGIN, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY,... |
| 00:37:13 |
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THANK YOU. |
| 00:37:17 |
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MR. CHAIRMAN, THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME TO TESTIFY. I WOULD LIKE TO SUBMIT MY WRITTEN TESTIMONY FOR... |
| 00:42:29 |
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THANK YOU. I CANNOT HELP BUT IN A CHOIR -- DID YOU ACTUALLY READ THE BILL THAT IS THE SUBJECT OF TODAY'S... |
| 00:43:13 |
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I THINK THAT WE HAVE BANKRUPTCY PROVISIONS RIGHT NOW IN THE UNITED STATES THAT ARE DOING A GOOD JOB... |
| 00:43:21 |
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ARE THEY DOING A GOOD JOB FOR MS. BURNS? |
| 00:43:26 |
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SHE WAS IN A VERY UNFORTUNATE SITUATION. |
| 00:43:30 |
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BANKRUPTCY TENDS TO ATTRACT PEOPLE WITH BANKRUPTCY SITUATIONS, DOESN'T IT? |
| 00:43:37 |
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IT DOES, BUT WHAT WE NEED TO DO IT IS ALSO LOOK AT THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF THESE TYPES OF LEGISLATION... |
| 00:43:54 |
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I THINK I WILL LEAVE IT THERE. I CANNOT SAY ANYTHING BETTER THAN THAT. MS, MATHUR, YOU INDICATED YOU... |
| 00:44:42 |
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EXACTLY, WHICH IS WHY I DID NOT TALK ABOUT IT IN MY STATEMENT. |
| 00:44:47 |
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YOUR CONCERN IS SHE WOULD HAVE AN EASIER TIME WALKING AWAY FROM OTHER CHARGEABLE DEBT AND IT WOULD... |
| 00:46:53 |
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AS I STATED IN MY OPENING REMARKS, MY INTENTION WAS THAT THIS PARTICULAR ACT COULD BE OPEN TO ABUSE... |
| 00:47:08 |
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LET'S SAY -- TO USE YOUR NUMBER, 29% OF BANKRUPTCIES ARE COST BY MEDICAL BILLS. THAT IS ONE OUT OF... |
| 00:48:09 |
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I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND CREDIT COUNSELING FOR SOMEONE LIKE HER. I NEVER MADE IT IN MY OPENING REMARKS... |
| 00:48:54 |
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DID YOU READ THE ORIGINAL BACK TO REFORM ACT? DID YOU READ ANYTHING ABOUT UNFORESEEN CONSEQUENCES... |
| 00:49:34 |
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I WILL CONCLUDE JUST BY SAYING IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE CONCERN OVER UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES THAT YOU... |
| 00:49:51 |
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I THINK THE CONSEQUENCES FOR THE CREDIT CRUNCH SYSTEM WOULD HAVE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES FOR DEBTORS.... |
| 00:50:15 |
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MY TIME HAS EXPIRED RANKING MEMBER -- MY TIME HAS EXPIRED. A RANKING MEMBER? |
| 00:50:26 |
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MS. BURNS, IT WAS PRETTY CLEAR AFTER YOU WENT ONLINE, DID THE SYSTEM ON CREDIT COUNSELING, YOU FOUND... |
| 00:52:31 |
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THEY CAN FILE FOR CHAPTER 7 ELIGIBILITY IF THEY ARE BELOW THE MEDIAN INCOME AUTOMATICALLY. |
| 00:52:38 |
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DO YOU AGREE THAT 83% OF PEOPLE ARE AT OR BELOW THE MEDIAN INCOME? |
| 00:52:46 |
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THE LARGE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO CURRENTLY FIVE FOR THE BANKRUPTCY SYSTEM ARE BELOW THE MEDIAN INCOME.... |
| 00:52:55 |
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IF YOU WERE PRETTY COLD BLOODED, YOU WOULD SAY, I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE INSURANCE, I BELIEVE I AM HEALTHY,... |
| 00:54:14 |
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YOU RAISE THE INCENTIVE OF ECONOMIC PERSPECTIVE. SHE RAISED THE POSSIBILITY OF OPPORTUNISTIC BEHAVIOR,... |
| 00:55:06 |
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IT SEEMS TO ME THE VERY REASON WE HAVE BANKRUPTCY PROCEDURES. I CERTAINLY DO NOT WANT TO DENIGRATE... |
| 00:56:45 |
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AS AN ECONOMIST, I WOULD AGREE THAT THE DESIGN OF THE STUDY IS POORLY DONE. THE FIRST ISSUE WITH THE... |
| 00:59:10 |
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WE WOULD HAVE TO THROW THE WHOLE FIELD OF SOCIOLOGY IF WE WERE NOT TO USE IT ANYMORE AND I THINK THAT... |
| 01:00:45 |
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IT IS TIME TO GET ON TO ANOTHER -- |
| 01:00:48 |
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I DO NOT HAVE ANY DOUBT THAT A NUMBER OF PEOPLE, A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER HAVE FILED BANKRUPTCY BECAUSE... |
| 01:01:27 |
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THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN FOR CALLING THIS HEARING ON YOUR BILL AND I WANT TO THANK THE WITNESSES THAT... |
| 01:01:55 |
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I DO NOT WANT TO SPEAK FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE PASSED THE LEGISLATION, BUT THERE WAS THE SUGGESTION THAT... |
| 01:02:41 |
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MS. EDWARDS, IN YOUR WRITTEN TESTIMONY YOU NOTE THAT ACCORDING TO ONE SURVEY, MEDICAL EXPENSES HELPED... |
| 01:03:26 |
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[INAUDIBLE] |
| 01:03:34 |
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I WILL PUT MY BANKRUPTCY LAWYER HAD ON FOR A SECOND, IF I HAD SOMEONE WHO CAME TO ME WITH THESE KINDS... |
| 01:07:11 |
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I HAVE TO AGREE WITH THAT. DOCTOR, I THINK WE DISAGREE ON WHETHER HEALTH CARE REFORM THAT WE'RE TALKING... |
| 01:07:53 |
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I DO NOT HAVE THAT MEMBER IN FRONT OF ME. |
| 01:07:55 |
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I CAN TELL YOU HOW MANY IT WAS. IT WAS 0. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY MEDICAL BANKRUPTCY'S THERE WERE LAST... |
| 01:08:06 |
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I DO NOT HAVE THAT NUMBER, BUT I CAN GET BACK TO YOU. |
| 01:08:08 |
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THE NUMBER IS 0. YOU KNOW HOW MANY GERMANY? |
| 01:08:16 |
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FROM THE TREND OF YOUR QUESTIONS, I WOULD PRESUME THE ANSWER IS 0. BUT I WOULD HAVE TO GET BACK TO... |
| 01:08:23 |
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YOU ARE VERY FAST. THE POINT IS, I THINK WE NEED TO GO IN THAT DIRECTION NOT IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION.... |
| 01:08:31 |
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DO YOU KNOW THE CANCER SURVIVAL RATES IN THOSE COUNTRIES? |
| 01:08:35 |
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YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE PICKED ON ONE -- AND IF YOU LOOK AT THAT STUDY, DID YOU KNOW THAT WE PICK EASILY,... |
| 01:09:33 |
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THE FACT IS ALSO THAT THE MOST FINE STUDY DID NOT PROVE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM. THE DOCTOR WAS SAYING... |
| 01:09:48 |
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SENATOR FEINGOLD IS RECOGNIZED. WE HAVE TIME. SENATOR FOR THEIR QUESTIONS. -- WE HAVE TIME FOR EACH... |
| 01:09:58 |
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I AGREE WITH YOU THAT THIS ISSUE OF MEDICAL BANKRUPTCY SHOULD BE PART OF THE UPCOMING DEBATE IN THE... |
| 01:12:48 |
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THIS IS A VERY DISTURBING TREND AND I'M GLAD YOU'RE ASKING FOR THE NUMBERS AND DATA BECAUSE EVEN THESE... |
| 01:14:15 |
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THE ELDERLY COME IN 50% OF MORE -- OR MORE OF PEOPLE COME IN WITH MEDICARE COME IN WITH TWO OR MORE... |
| 01:16:16 |
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PEOPLE WHO MAKE LESS THAN THE MEDIAN INCOME NOT SUBJECT TO THE MEANS TEST, BUT THEY STILL HAVE TO... |
| 01:16:27 |
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AND INDEED, ANOTHER CONSEQUENCE, TOO, IS THAT THEY HAVE TO PAY MUCH MORE FOR THESE ATTORNEY FEES.... |
| 01:17:05 |
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THANK YOU VERY MUCH. COURTESY AMONG SENATORS IS VERY IMPORTANT AROUND HERE, SO I HAD TO CUT OFF MS.... |
| 01:18:42 |
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SHOULD MS. BURNS HAD GONE TO CREDIT COUNSELING IN HER CIRCUMSTANCES? |
| 01:18:45 |
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I THINK THAT ALL THE DECISIONS MS. BURNS MADE WERE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT INTO HER CIRCUMSTANCES. |
| 01:18:51 |
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SHOULD SHE HAVE HAD TO UNDERGO CREDIT COUNSELING IN HER CIRCUMSTANCES? |
| 01:18:56 |
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I DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION. |
| 01:18:59 |
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UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES COULD ANSWER POSSIBLY BE YES? |
| 01:19:05 |
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I THINK THAT MAKING POLICY BY ANECDOTE OF ONE PERSON IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. |
| 01:19:10 |
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I DID NOT ASK YOU ABOUT POLICY. I ASK YOU, SHOULD MS. BURNS HAVE BEEN SUBJECTED TO CREDIT COUNSELING?... |
| 01:19:16 |
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AND I SAID THAT WHATEVER HAPPENED TO MS. BURNS WAS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT AND I DO NOT COMMENT ON WHAT... |
| 01:19:42 |
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MS. BURNS, COULD YOU TELL US A BIT MORE ABOUT THE ACTUAL PROCESS AS IT WORKED OUT FOR YOU AND FOR... |
| 01:20:09 |
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WE ARE STILL ACTUALLY IN THE PROCESS. |
| 01:20:11 |
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AND HOW IS THAT? |
| 01:20:14 |
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WE FIRST MET WITH LAWYERS IN APRIL. ABOUT A MONTH AFTER OUR SON PASSED AWAY, WHICH WAS INCREDIBLY... |
| 01:22:11 |
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EVEN THOUGH YOU HAD ALREADY DONE IT WITH YOUR LAWYER, YOU HAD TO DO IT AGAIN FOR THIS PROGRAM. |
| 01:22:17 |
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WE HAD TO DO IT AGAIN AND THERE IS NO DOUBT IN OUR MINDS THAT WE ARE FILING BANKRUPTCY. THERE'S NO... |
| 01:22:28 |
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THE DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE. |
| 01:22:30 |
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WE DO NOT. |
| 01:22:32 |
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IS THERE A PERSON THAT YOU'RE TALKING TO? |
| 01:22:34 |
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IS A COMPUTER PROGRAM. THEY CALLED US BECAUSE WE LOGGED IN AND STARTED THE PROCESS AND WE STOPPED.... |
| 01:22:56 |
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THERE WAS NO ONE TO GO TO TO SAY, LISTEN, MY SON DIED, PUTTING ME THROUGH THIS IS PREPOSTEROUS. |
| 01:23:02 |
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NO. |
| 01:23:04 |
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YOU JUST HAVE TO GO AND KEEP GOING WITH A COMPUTER PROGRAM. IT IS YOU VERSES THE COMPUTER. NOT EVEN... |
| 01:23:11 |
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RIGHT, AND WE WILL NEED TO DO IT AGAIN AFTER WE GO TO THE FILING PROCESS AND MEET WITH A JUDGE. IT... |
| 01:23:33 |
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I CAN APPRECIATE THAT AND ON TOP OF BEING SUBJECTED TO, WHAT DID YOU SAY, 20 OR 30 COLLECTIONS CALLS... |
| 01:24:29 |
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ABSOLUTELY, AND WE DID MAKE A GOOD-FAITH EFFORT WHEN WE KNEW THAT OUR MONEY IS RUNNING OUT TO CONTACT... |
| 01:24:47 |
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AND BECAUSE OF THAT DELAY IN GETTING THROUGH THE BANKRUPTCY PROCESS, WHICH WAS CAUSED BY THE DELAY... |
| 01:25:10 |
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YES. |
| 01:25:11 |
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I'M SORRY. |
| 01:25:12 |
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THANK YOU. |
| 01:25:21 |
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A RANKING MEMBER? |
| 01:25:28 |
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LET ME SAY THIS ABOUT CREDIT COUNSELING, YOU CAN GO TO A LOCAL -- LOCAL CREDIT COUNSELOR OR YOU CAN... |
| 01:26:17 |
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CAN I INTERRUPT FOR A |
| 01:26:18 |
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YES, YOU CAN. |
| 01:26:21 |
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IN WHAT WAY COULD THERE POSSIBLY BE MORE INTRUSIVE GOVERNMENT REGULATION THAN TO HAVE THE GOVERNMENT... |
| 01:26:44 |
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IF YOU GOT THE INFORMATION THAT YOU PROVIDED TO YOUR LAWYER, I'M UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT IT CAN... |
| 01:26:52 |
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DID IT TAKE YOU AN HOUR? |
| 01:26:53 |
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NO, IT DID NOT. AND UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE BEEN BETWEEN THREE HOUSES, THREE DIFFERENT LIVING ARRANGEMENTS... |
| 01:27:45 |
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WOULD THERE BE A POTENTIAL OPTION FOR YOU TO SEEK TO GO THROUGH THAT WITHOUT A FEE? WHAT ABOUT THE... |
| 01:28:03 |
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I HAD NO IDEA. |
| 01:28:05 |
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$1,300. |
| 01:28:08 |
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WHAT ABOUT THE ATTORNEYS' FEE? |
| 01:28:10 |
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I KNOW THE FILING FEE IS $1,300. I'M SURE THERE ARE OTHER EXPENSES. |
| 01:28:16 |
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THEY DID NOT TELL YOU WHAT THEY WOULD CHARGE? |
| 01:28:21 |
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THEY TOLD US $1,300. |
| 01:28:24 |
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IT IS GOING TO BE MORE THAN $250, I THINK. |
| 01:28:30 |
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I WILL TAKE THAT AS A QUESTION TO ME, ALTHOUGH, YOU'RE JUST SORT OF NODDING TO ME. I THINK THERE ARE... |
| 01:29:04 |
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YOU MENTIONED THE HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION. I HAVE ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT THIS IS BIZARRE THAT A PERSON WOULD... |
| 01:29:36 |
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I BELIEVE IT IS UNLIMITED, STILL. |
| 01:29:42 |
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T DID NOT SURVIVE CONFERENCE. |
| 01:29:45 |
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WHICH IS BREATHTAKING TO ME, THAT INDIVIDUAL COULD MOVE TO FLORIDA OR TEXAS AND MAYBE KANSAS. THEY... |
| 01:30:07 |
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THERE IS A NARROW SLIVER OF ABUSE, BUT MY PERSONAL EXCUSE WAS THAT YOU DO NOT SEE THAT MUCH OF IT... |
| 01:31:24 |
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THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT OVERWHELMINGLY, THE PEOPLE THAT FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY ARE ENTITLED TO IT LEGALLY... |
| 01:33:28 |
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I THANK THE RANKING MEMBER VERY MUCH FOR HIS COURTESY AND PARTICIPATION IN THIS HEARING. I THINK WE... |
| 01:34:52 |
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I THINK THERE'S THE POSSIBILITY OF FURTHER DISCUSSIONS AND MAYBE WE CAN REACH SOME AGREEMENT, BUT... |
| 01:36:38 |
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I THINK THERE'S A DISTINCTION THAT CAN REASONABLY BE DRAWN BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO HAVE DELIBERATELY RUN... |
| 01:36:48 |
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YOU ARE SAYING IF THEY HAVE A MEDICAL BILL THEY HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO PAY THE HOSPITAL BECAUSE IT... |
| 01:37:13 |
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I THINK WHAT WE ARE SEEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN, AND IT RELATES BACK TO THE NATURE OF THE AMERICAN HEALTH-CARE... |
NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.